Forum - View topicNEWS: ADV Head Says UK Issues May Be Due to Illegal Releases
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Sam-I-Am
Posts: 121 Location: Midwest US |
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The article used the existence of garages bands 'with no realistic expectation of making music for a living' as an argument that music making would continue without copyright laws, apparently in the hope that readers would believe that all music is written and played for purely artistic reasons. Yes, there's a lot of amateur music out there and has been throughout history, and yes, the industry isn't driven by talent alone, but if money could not be reliably made, professional musicians, tours, and albums would not exist. Professional musicians do not perform without being paid... that's what being a professional means. My point is that the amateur musicians receive something of value besides money as an inducement to continue playing, even if only the pride of being on stage, or love of music. Hmm... the word "amateur" is rooted in the Latin verb 'to love'...
There's software in the works that compares video files much like comparing fingerprints, intended for use with getting rips found and removed from places like Youtube.
How so? Paying taxes might be similar to robbery in that it's not an entirely voluntary transaction, but in exchange for my taxes, I get things of value... national defense, highways, the weather service, public schools... What do Robin Hood's victims get? Empty bags and a headache?
I'll forgive you for misreading that. I was referring to the "i don't have any money, so I'll download every anime on the web" demographic in that example. I'm fully aware of the dollars that can vanish in the pursuit of dvds... the list I've kept since I started three or four years ago has about 75 full series and 40 some movies on it, all of them US releases, most bought at full price (Best Buy shelf price, at least). I don't add up the discs or dollars, no sense scaring myself. The point I was trying to make is that advertisers advertise to people who have money, and are willing to spend that money on their products. If an advertising arena does not generate sales or visible amounts of goodwill, they will take their marketing dollars elsewhere. If an online downloading service relies on advertising dollars to maintain that service, and none of the users buy the advertisers products, how long will the service last? Most of the 'advertisers' on newborn sites are packaged by providers that use a shotgun approach. By allowing their banner ads on your new site, they will kick some pennys your way when people click on the ad. No clicks, no pennys. My question is if there's enough pennys to make it work. And do you really want anime to be supported by porn ads? Is that helpful to the overall image?
Privacy rights inviolate? Check. Property rights optional? Check. Got it. Nice to know that we're able to pick and choose morals. [/sarcasm]
Yes, every single illegal music site went away overnight, didn't they? Hopefully, something like this will appear, and be embraced. I have my doubts that piracy will cease when it does appear, though, especially when people believe that they have a right to possess someone else's property without payment, or that they shouldn't have to wait the few months or years for a legal version to reach the shelves. |
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Tofusensei
Posts: 365 |
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No, but they certainly monetized a good portion of the previous "lost revenue" (tm) RIAA. Throw in the fact that anime viewers are even more tech-savvy than the average itunes downloader and there becomes an ever greater need to monetize the fans who will just as well download/stream it from somewhere on the net. -Tofu |
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Joshua-Sensei
Posts: 20 |
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Some one needs to, it's true that fansubbers aren't the most "innocent" people in the world, they "do break the law", but they aren't the scourge of the earth that the group of "Anti-fansubbers" make them out to be. They love the art form just as much as the rest of us, if not more, because they are willing to take their time to give hardcore fans, who will never see the anime they love hit the states, and they do it all at no profit to themselves.. all of their joy is intrinsic. Any ways..
Piracy will never cease to exist, it will exist as long as humans exist, but with a 1.99 stream or even better DOWNLOAD (because that is what fans want, obviously) will reduce piracy to it's "normal" level from where it is now at running rampant. |
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Randompeon
Posts: 18 Location: Scotland |
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Finally someone else understands how fansubbers work. The reason i said 99% of fansubbers i know is due to knowing some who still do it after a series is licenced or even released. An earlier post said something about translations from fansubbers being worse, however on some occasions i have found that the fansubber version was better due to the DVD subs were more a direct translation rather than put into a proper context, it's like they get a script and translate that rather than watching it and seeing the scene first then translating, i admit to not being fluent in japanese however i have a big enough vocabulary to understand section which just aren't right with some DVD subs. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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This is a rather romantic view of a bunch of people with too much time on their hands seeking personal glory and recognition for illegally exploiting a product they had absolutely nothing to do with in terms of production or finance. It's not about love, it's not even really about the anime. You use so many loaded words - "anime is an art form" is a smokescreen designed to suggest that anime is like famous masterworks or has some intrinsic educational or cultural value and therefore should be offered for free to the public for the sake cultural advancement. It's another in a long, long line of nonsense justifications for piracy and it's clear you're drinking gallons of cool-aid. In reality, it's a product, designed to be profitable, just like a can of soda or a candy bar. Further, nobody said fansubbers were the "scourge of the earth", but it is undeniable that what they do is damaging the industry. Anyone with a lick of common sense looking at this situation can see that. But common sense and practicality seem to be in short supply among anime fans who go on and on about how wonderfully marvelous fansubs are. Also, I want to add that taking fansubs down after the series has been released only worked in the days of VHS fansubs. When a digital copy goes out, it's out there - you've released the product. Even if you take your torrent down, countless others still exist. Taking the torrents down is a meaningless gesture designed to kinda-sorta cover the asses of the people fansubbing series. It accomplishes absolutely nothing. The damage has been done the second you upload the show. |
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Goodpenguin
Posts: 457 Location: Hunt Valley, MD |
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Joshua-Sensei wrote:
Joshua-Sensei, with respect that's exactly the sort of 'pie-in-the-sky' flimflam that usually get's peoples hackles up in the first place. While I don't doubt fansub creators are big fans, let's knock off the 'noble sacrifice' routine, it's disingenuous to the extreme. Fansubs provide a very effecting 'social community' for a lot of people, that's the big draw, and it was clearly illustrated on the last big fansub thread. Even the mighty 'The Industry Must Work With Us!!!' arguments boiled down to fansubbers wishes to be socially elevated to 'official superfans' in return for stopping a work at a companies behest. Fansub makers and elements of it's fandom heavily enjoy the social communities/connections they've built through the medium, and unsurprisingly they wish to preserve them. That might not be a particularly 'noble' reason, but it's an honest one. Peddling 'pure love' for the medium is neither convincing or a productive line of defense; the vast majority of major fansub dust-ups have nothing to do with the actual fansubs themselves, but with the obviously self-serving reasoning often employed to justify their legitimacy. Nobody is going to 'argue' fansubs out of existence on a message board, and on the same token heavy fansub community supporters would do well to drop the false modesty routine. |
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Joshua-Sensei
Posts: 20 |
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[quote="Zac"]
You're right since most of them never really come out in the open and say that they fansub, they are underground, so to speak. They don't want personal glory and obviously you are the one drinking cool-aid. It's not about love, it's not even really about the anime.
I'm not saying you should get it for free, and I have said many times, I download AND buy the series I download. Obviously people can't read, or just ignore because they are the elitest fans that say they are the only ones who support the industry because they buy their anime only. Well that's all well and good, but get the US industry to licence the shows I watch and I will support them even more. And it IS an artform, just as comic books are, and Theatre is, calling it just a product demeans what anime is.
Read pages back and other topics and you will see they do call them this. I don't think fansubs are the best thing in the world, but it's what I have for shows like Onepiece (back in the day) LOVE how you ignored that, and went right to attacking fansubbers. You're not lacking common sense just good debating skills. Genius. Go drink your cool-aid little boy, I'll enjoy my beer. [quote="Zac"]
You're right since most of them never really come out in the open and say that they fansub, they are underground, so to speak. They don't want personal glory and obviously you are the one drinking cool-aid. It's not about love, it's not even really about the anime.
I'm not saying you should get it for free, and I have said many times, I download AND buy the series I download. Obviously people can't read, or just ignore because they are the elitest fans that say they are the only ones who support the industry because they buy their anime only. Well that's all well and good, but get the US industry to licence the shows I watch and I will support them even more. And it IS an artform, just as comic books are, and Theatre is, calling it just a product demeans what anime is.
Read pages back and other topics and you will see they do call them this. I don't think fansubs are the best thing in the world, but it's what I have for shows like Onepiece (back in the day) LOVE how you ignored that, and went right to attacking fansubbers. You're not lacking common sense just good debating skills. Genius. Go drink your cool-aid little boy, I'll enjoy my beer. Edit: Pengiun, where I understand that fansubbers are not saints, I do appreciate what they do for fans who will never see their series licenced. I love Kodomo No Jikan, and yet sadly it will probably never get licenced in the Us, it had a hard enough time in Japan, still things like He is my master has never been released and most likely never will be. No fansubbers are not saints, and I hold them in the same light I hold most people, BUT I appreciate them, and don't feel they should be attacked constantly and unbaisedly by "elite fans" Last edited by Joshua-Sensei on Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:53 pm; edited 9 times in total |
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hentai4me
 Posts: 1313 Location: England. Robin is so Cute! |
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Examples. People commonly say that Fansubs are superior to the official subs. Fine. Now I want consistent, BULK, empirical evidence of this. Show me ≈10 shows, not one or two, but ≈10 shows where, throughout a goodly portion ≈25% or more of the episodes where the fansubs have translated scenes (not all but again more than a few lines here and there) differently and what makes their version more accurate or superior to the same scenes in the officially released version. If, of course, a scene or something has it's meaning changed by the sub as opposed to merely being a different word usage for the same thing then that is an example. Using something like 'space man' as opposed to 'astronaut' does not change the meaning except in special contextual circumstances. If I want to get working practice in my office changed, perhaps providing more frequent but shorter breaks for my staff, I have to go to the higher ups and show them with a good quantity of non overly subjective evidence that such a change is beneficial...or at the very least not detrimental. Scientists have to work in a similar way, they need to gather a large amount of data from different sources, have that checked externally and when t is verified they can present it as 'fact'. It is the generally accepted view that for things to be paraded as 'fact' they have to meet certain minimum requirements, just because anime is a far less serious topic to scientific discovery or the working practices of the 27 people working in my office and their jobs and pay doesn't mean it should be exempt. Prove it, prove it again, get others to agree with your proof, prove it in bulk, then, and only then can the statement 'Fansubbers do a better/more faithful/etc translation than the official companies do' be proven to be a fact. Now I'm sure you'll respond all hurt saying that you said that only some of the time the fansubbers are better...blah blah blah...Instead I want you, or someone who is 'into' fansubs and willing to do the work to actually go out there and do the work needed to prove or disprove the statement above. So this post is not directed at you, but at all of those who feel that fansubbers do a better translation than the official companies do. At least some of the time. |
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Joshua-Sensei
Posts: 20 |
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Pengiun, where I understand that fansubbers are not saints, I do appreciate what they do for fans who will never see their series licenced. I love Kodomo No Jikan, and yet sadly it will probably never get licenced in the Us, it had a hard enough time in Japan, still things like He is my master has never been released and most likely never will be. No fansubbers are not saints, and I hold them in the same light I hold most people, BUT I appreciate them, and don't feel they should be attacked constantly and unbaisedly by "elite fans"
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OneHotAlchemist
Posts: 85 |
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Then you would be in the minority. I know at least 10 people personally who downloaded 50+ episodes if Bleach and Naruto, but have yet to purchase a single DVD. Heck, we've had people in the industry exclaim that some series don't get licensed because their fansubs would make it nigh unprofitable. Oh, and if you want to blame anyone for One Piece, blame the Japanese. Most of the edits, plot changes, etc. was their call in order to try and grow a fanbase in the US. I hate 4kids as much as anyone else, but usually the "zomg I lamezorz teh editz" come from Japan. Look at Dragon Ball for instance. |
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10441 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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An aggregator is a news outlet that does nothing but aggregate, without adding any new information to that which they aggregate, and without coming up with any original content. Most of the news on most news outlets is in fact sourced to other news outlets. That's the way the news industry works. Go pick up a copy of your local newspaper, you'll find that most of the items are from other sources. I think ANN has more than enough original content, and ads more than enough content to our sourced news, to qualify as more than an aggregator. But I really don't care what you label us, blog, tabloid, aggregator, news site, webzine... The label doesn't matter to me. What matters is that we're doing a damn good job of making sure that our readers know what's going on in the anime world. -t |
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Dante80
 Posts: 218 Location: Athens Greece |
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About the translation, there are horrible, average, good and brilliant fansubs out there. About the same goes for the official R1 releases. There are many instances where fansub translations are better than the R1 ones. And of course, the opposite is ALSO true. And, for every fansub group that does a bad job in translating a certain series, there is almost always another that does a spectacular job in the same series. The same though, does NOT happen with R1 releases. If the translation is bad, we are stuck with it. Moreover, DVD limitations give R1 companies a hard time concerning sign translations, translation notes etc. Now, of you want specific shows, check the following for starters...nobody is going to show you something, nobody is trying to convince you about sth. Ergo Proxy R1 ~ AnimeKraze or Shs release Place Promised in our Early Days R1 ~ PSNR release School rumble R1 ~ WannabeFansubs release Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu R1 ~ A.f.k. or Hitsuji release Kanon '06 R1 ~ SS-Eclipse release Last edited by Dante80 on Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Goodpenguin
Posts: 457 Location: Hunt Valley, MD |
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Joshua-sensei wrote:
On your last point Joshua-Sensei, I'm not sure how you came to your conclusion on 'elite fans'. From where I sit, as someone who has watched anime nearing two decades, heavy fansub community members usually are what would be referred to as the 'elite fans'. Heavy fansub watchers massively outnumber people who mainly get their anime fix through R1 purchases, by nature of fansubs generally are 'up to date'/talking about series long before R1 purchasers, and virulent, almost proto-religious fansub defense usually outstrips the volume of dissenting opinion by a good margin on these message boards. On your former point being able to see a series that probably will never cross the ocean commercially is a nice benefit, it's largely why I watch fansubs. However, that's just one simple point in a much larger pool of issues. If people could more often honestly broker pro's and con's ala: 'On one hand it's nice to be able see shows you normally wouldn't get a chance to, on the other hand it's easy to see the ubiquity of modern fansubs is really watering down legit consumer demand..', there wouldn't be half as much acrimony as there is now. It's when heavy fansub defense is proffered in very dishonest, 'blanket' justifications (which often boil down to people being very defensive in protecting their social fansub communities) that acrimony usually kicks up by several degrees. |
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tygerchickchibi
 Posts: 1465 |
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@Dante80: You've watched both the fansub release and the domestic release, per say? Just curious...
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Dante80
Posts: 218 Location: Athens Greece |
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Of course (till the last release for some R1 shows). Why would I give them as examples otherwise?...I buy R1 DVDs in bulk...although its kind of illegal to have them here (Europe)...
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