Forum - View topicBest blending of 2D and 3D graphics.
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p3rseus
Posts: 72 |
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I thought Ghost in the Shell Innocence did it splendidly well. More so than GITS: Solid State Society even. The amount of quality and the attention to detail is simple incredible, from the door handles to the rendered cities, this is one amazing visual feat.
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BaconMushroomMelt
 Posts: 10 |
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This is not about the quality of the GGI but rather how well it mixes with the 2d animation. In Innocence, it was obvious what was CGI and what wasn't. |
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Xenosaga1980
 Posts: 16 Location: Norway |
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I also prefer handdrawn over CGI. But if the CGI is over the top gorgeous, I'll watch it. If all anime goes CGI, ill prolly also loose a bit of my interest:p But I doubt that will happen. If they found using CGI was easier to do, they prolly would have done so years ago since the Japanese has always had the technology way ahead of others.
I do accept em using CGI to render difficult things like ocean and steam etc in a handdrawn anime Another blended anime i remember is the Sky Crawlers. Bit of an odd storyline, but I enjoyed it. |
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zawa113
 Posts: 7358 |
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Wow, I don't even remember making this topic.
Anyway, yeah, Noein. I think it did a good job with it, but my issue was always that the CGI in the show was too noticeable in comparison to the 2D characters. Another good one is Metropolis. Except for one scene towards the end where it looked like they were walking on top of the stage (until it became clear later that there was a large clear plastic thing over the floor, but by then it was too late), it always looked like the characters were well grounded to the scenery. Of course to me, it looked fairly obvious that some of the things were CGI, like the big fish that swam by the window, but I was questioning on some of the backgrounds (thank god for extra commentary to tell me otherwise, eh?). Sure, the entire movie was just plain beautiful, but the backgrounds were just amazing sometimes. They didn't quite convince me all the time that they weren't CGI, but for blending, it did a damn good job. |
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Sword Magess
 Posts: 285 Location: 武汉 |
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I'll have to agree with the ones who said Karas. At least currently, the choice of what to render with polygons and when to use them are at least as important as the technological finesse with which the rendering is executed. The polygon rendered portions in Karas are: the background, which, being set mostly in a neon-lit district of Japan in the night time, looks perfect with CG lighting and shading techniques, I dare say much better than what can be done with cels, CG colored or not; and the yokais--generally dark in color and are placed in low lighting conditions so as to not draw attention to the common problem of superior 3-D surface presentation of polygon models compared to cel parts--, which have somewhat inhuman appearance, bypassing the common problem of rendering proper movement in a polygon character's facial movement.
Not an anime example, but the cutscenes in Zone of the Enders: the Second Runner used a similar solution. The characters--cel animated--are kept in low lighting conditions with constant colored light, which are very similar to, if not the same as the lighting used for the mecha scenes, which makes for excellent transitions when cutting from the cel animated portions to the polygon animated portions. |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15524 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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I cant realy remember too much, Clannad I think did a fairly nice job of mixing the CGI robot with the 2D girl. I think School Rumble had some interesting CGI added in. usualy to parody a movie, though the sports fest LoTR parody was a bit too much of a change. I think I remember some good CGI thrown into Macademi Wasshoi or some good CGI blending in Time of Eve(Eve no Jikan). I am not sure but I think there was nice CGI thrown into Hellsing Ultimate, though I dont know if that was just some good animating.
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Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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Along with a title that has already been mentioned here, one of my absolute favourites -Voices of a Distant Star- features exquisite CGI. If the criterion being adhered to is the 2D and 3D visuals managing to blend into an inseparable aesthetic whole, then it may well be discarded, as there is a somewhat obvious distinction to be made between that which was drawn by hand and that which was rendered.
If however the criterion is that each visual component exudes a notable quality, when judged qua the means it is produced, then it passes with flying colours. The film in question attempts to use its graphical flair as part of an emotional appeal, and speaking for myself it achieves this perfectly. Though same ought to be said for Pale Cocoon (currently available on Crunchyroll), I didn't really feel very much as I drifted through this comparable film. |
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kage musouka
 Posts: 1 |
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There are two ways I could take the phrase 'blending of 2D and 3D graphics'
There's the instance when CG is used to augment a mainly 2D animation and ideally should not be detected as CG (Although most of the time we can tell). The first time I found something that impressed me with it's seamless integration of 2D & CG was The Triplets of Belleville. Most recently though, I thought Seirei no Moribito and the non-robot Clannad scenes did a good job The other instance I'm thinking of as 'blending' is where the 2D and 3D are simply used side by side - I think the Mamoru Oshii Ghost in the Shell movies did well. In particular Innocence. Also, the scenes in Clannad with the robot and the girl were nicely done. |
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oldwrench
 Posts: 5 Location: Minnesota USA |
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For me, it is getting difficult to tell what is cgi and what isn't anymore. When I watched the anime A Tree of Palme, I thought it had some beautifully rendered cgi, till I red the insert, it is all cell animation. With Appleseed, I thought they didn't blend the cg and cel very well, till I found out it was all cg. Perhaps it's my antique eyes, but I think things have gotten to be extremely well done.
I agree with most of the people's picks. I couldn't pick a "best" among them, but they are all excellent examples of artwork. I just purchased the Sky Crawlers, it is an excellent example, I believe we will see much more cgi in the future. No, they didn't have the ability to do the work they are now years ago, and labor costs have risen over the years. It's just a fact that they can render many scenes much faster and more cost efficiently with cg. We should be glad that some artists have become so good at it that we have the beauty and detail that is available now. |
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BaconMushroomMelt
Posts: 10 |
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If we'll actually be seeing it at all depending on how well it's integrated into the 2d animation. I just noticed only recently that some background characters in Eden of the East are actually cell shaded CGI. It's hard to notice if you don't look at it closely and when they're not moving like this. http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg55/BaconMushroomMelt_2008/snapshot20090708072156.jpg?t=1247009647 |
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B-503_MIA
 Posts: 149 Location: Green Bay, WI |
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I just started watching "Flag", I'm on the 2nd dvd & so far this is a great representation of this thread. I haven't heard too much about Flag but this is a very well done & unique anime, it has elements that remind me of Gasaraki (one of my old favorites) but sped up for a short 13 episode run. Good stuff...
I agree with this & find that cgi lends itself well to space scenes &, especially, formations of spacecraft. I DID like the work done on Robotech: The Shadow Chronicles, yeah, you could certainly tell it was CG but the large formations of different sized mechs & warships gave a great sense of scale. For another great example of the melding of 2D & 3D, cite the anime my avatar & user name are from - Yukikaze! How could I have left it out of my first post? |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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So far, the best anime I've seen use CGI extremely well goes to Shakugan no Shana.
Most CGI anime usually uses it near the 2D drawings, but SnS actually uses it around the 2D drawings (enveloping them), specifically the restricted method for Daw's helpers. I had never seen such detail to wrap it in context with the 2D drawings itself. That must have been some painstaking work to do, but well worth it as the results are simply unmatched (that I've seen so far). Other use of CGI simply pales in comparison. While there are some good uses of it, having it stand out against the 2D environment makes it relatively too easy to spot. |
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Ausdoerrt
 Posts: 481 |
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^ I never actually noticed that for SnS (wasn't really looking for it either). But if it's really as you say, then I must say it's pretty formiddable - best use of 3D is when you can't telly it's there.
Personally, best uses of CG in anime I saw were for creating environments, best done in Tekkon Kinkreet. A bit worse, but roughly in the same league are Shinkai's "Place..." and "5cm", as well as the current Bakemonogatari. BTW, now all we need is the "worst use of CGI" thread  Like, you know, all those lazy cases when CGI is used not because it looks better, but because it's less work.
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belindabird
 Subscriber Posts: 134 Location: Minneapolis |
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The CG in Rideback was obvious (it was used for all the vehicles), but what struck me as particularly skillful on Madhouse's part was the way the 2D characters were portrayed riding on the 3D vehicles. It was practically seamless, a feat that must have been extremely painstaking to accomplish.
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Ausdoerrt
Posts: 481 |
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^ If you say so... I'm not an expert, but I found the CG quality in rideback to be average if not poor.
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