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Answerman - Why is Yuri Anime So Popular Now?

Quote:

It's just a little surprising because of how conservative Japan is about the LGBTQ+ community.

It has to be understood in the appeal of violating a taboo for many (though not all) fans. Japan has incredibly low rates of out of wedlock births, and that complements the NTR genre's appeal rather than contradicting it. Certainly in the more porn like genres, the 男の娘 genre adheres more to a Greek understanding of sexuality than our modern LGBTQ friendly understanding.

It does feel like the stars aligned really well starting with Lycoris Recoil that just so happens that subsequent seasons after that we got solid yuri and yuri-adjacent titles (though I kind of wish The Executioner and Her Way of Life spear headed it first). But, hey, I'm all for it and just hope there won't be a dry spell.

Fedora-san wrote:

That being said we are getting an actual yuri ttle this year with I'm In Love With the Villainess.

Dd you completely miss The Magical Revolution of the Reincarnated Princess and the Genius Young Lady last season? Hell, there's Yuri is My Job that's airing this season right now!

It has to be understood in the appeal of violating a taboo for many (though not all) fans. Japan has incredibly low rates of out of wedlock births, and that complements the NTR genre's appeal rather than contradicting it. Certainly in the more porn like genres, the 男の娘 genre adheres more to a Greek understanding of sexuality than our modern LGBTQ friendly understanding.

I think there's a more simple explanation here: you don't have to support or care about gay rights to think lesbians are hot. Just because someone writes a yuri manga or puts a girl/girl couple in their work doesn't mean they have to be a vocal supporter of marriage equality or anything in real life. They could just find it sexy and appealing to do.

Also worth noting that, at least traditionally, both the BL and yuri genres are made for a primarily non-LGBTQ+ audience, with the stereotypical fan being a het member of the other sex who perhaps enjoys the frisson of violating taboos as well as preferring looking at two members of the opposite sex (often violating prescribed gender roles.) I have known plenty of Japanese real life BL and yuri fans who were anything but accepting of real life queerness.

Most of what's called yuri, at least by viewership and sales, is yuri for the male gaze, most BL is for the female gaze. The reality of numbers makes that most profitable (as does the insistence on plausible deniability and innuendo and subtext, to the point where people will claim that anything with same-sex friendship is yuri or BL, even if the actual subtext seems quite lacking. Conversely the amount of yuri or BL doujinshi for shows without the least bit of canon innuendo has always been popular.) Hence also the Class S stereotypes of homosocial environments leading to behavior that can be dismissed as a product of an environment without alternatives, experimentation, etc.

Yuri on Ice was notable for avoiding this, treating the situation as normal rather than violating a taboo.

Quote:

It's just a little surprising because of how conservative Japan is about the LGBTQ+ community.

It has to be understood in the appeal of violating a taboo for many (though not all) fans. Japan has incredibly low rates of out of wedlock births, and that complements the NTR genre's appeal rather than contradicting it. Certainly in the more porn like genres, the 男の娘 genre adheres more to a Greek understanding of sexuality than our modern LGBTQ friendly understanding.

CrimeVsCrime wrote:

I think there's a more simple explanation here: you don't have to support or care about gay rights to think lesbians are hot. Just because someone writes a yuri manga or puts a girl/girl couple in their work doesn't mean they have to be a vocal supporter of marriage equality or anything in real life. They could just find it sexy and appealing to do.

I'm less inclined to think that since most yuri series I'm familiar with are incredibly tame. Sweet kisses are as far as they usually get. You rarely see them lusting for each other and getting hot and heavy. It focuses on the emotional, not the physical which is why I usually work under the assumption that yuri series target female audiences rather than male ones.

I'm less inclined to think that since most yuri series I'm familiar with are incredibly tame. Sweet kisses are as far as they usually get. You rarely see them lusting for each other and getting hot and heavy. It focuses on the emotional, not the physical which is why I usually work under the assumption that yuri series target female audiences rather than male ones.

Yeah, but you just said you don't like yuri so I'm not sure why you think you'd know.

Vaisaga wrote:

I'm less inclined to think that since most yuri series I'm familiar with are incredibly tame. Sweet kisses are as far as they usually get. You rarely see them lusting for each other and getting hot and heavy. It focuses on the emotional, not the physical which is why I usually work under the assumption that yuri series target female audiences rather than male ones.

Well, it's not like K-On was dripping in fanservice and ecchi scenes either and that's a certified male pandering moe series. I don't think a series needs to be full of fanservice to appeal to men. Just having cute girls is enough But it really depends what you're reading or watching. A lot of the stuff in Comic Yuri Hime, the most popular yuri manga magazine running, like Android wa Keiken Ninzuu ni Hairimasu Ka can get pretty saucy. But if people only watch regular shows that yuribat then yeah, you won't see much. I guess people should specify when they say yuri do they mean actual titles that run in yuri magazines or just any show they're watching that has two female characters in it that they ship together.

I don't think being aimed at or written by men or women matters though. Women like smut too. "Male gaze" is a bad term people use because it acts like women won't enjoy seeing boobs or thighs themselves. I prefer just saying sexualized in general. A lot of ecchi artists are women, after all.

Also worth noting that, at least traditionally, both the BL and yuri genres are made for a primarily non-LGBTQ+ audience, with the stereotypical fan being a het member of the other sex who perhaps enjoys the frisson of violating taboos as well as preferring looking at two members of the opposite sex (often violating prescribed gender roles.) I have known plenty of Japanese real life BL and yuri fans who were anything but accepting of real life queerness.

Most of what's called yuri, at least by viewership and sales, is yuri for the male gaze, most BL is for the female gaze. The reality of numbers makes that most profitable (as does the insistence on plausible deniability and innuendo and subtext, to the point where people will claim that anything with same-sex friendship is yuri or BL, even if the actual subtext seems quite lacking. Conversely the amount of yuri or BL doujinshi for shows without the least bit of canon innuendo has always been popular.) Hence also the Class S stereotypes of homosocial environments leading to behavior that can be dismissed as a product of an environment without alternatives, experimentation, etc.

Yuri on Ice was notable for avoiding this, treating the situation as normal rather than violating a taboo.

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Because of that diverse path of evolution, "yuri" is a vague and inclusive category which can include explicit LGBTQ+ themes, but isn't exclusively defined by it. The narratives don't even need to be romantic; there are plenty of yuri fans and creators who would argue that yuri also encompasses any strong feelings like friendship, affection, respect, or jealousy.

This might be me being ignorant since I don't know much about the history of yuri and haven't read Erica Friedman's book, but what makes this different than BL? Why aren't similar shows (ie idol, sports, things that get called "fujobait") called BL the same way that Lycoris Recoil is yuri?

I think the fact is that there isn't just one definition of yuri that people use consistently. Sometimes it means an explicitly romantic relationship between women/girls, but sometimes it means a show with heavy ship-teasing (like Lycoris Recoil). It just depends on who's using it and in what context.

I'm not sure if BL/yaoi has the same crossover of the terms, but I think it happens sometimes. And calling something "fujobait" is pretty close to calling something "yuri" when the romance is all subtext.

Helix91 wrote:

I think the fact is that there isn't just one definition of yuri that people use consistently. Sometimes it means an explicitly romantic relationship between women/girls, but sometimes it means a show with heavy ship-teasing (like Lycoris Recoil). It just depends on who's using it and in what context. I'm not sure if BL/yaoi has the same crossover of the terms, but I think it happens sometimes. And calling something "fujobait" is pretty close to calling something "yuri" when the romance is all subtext.

Speaking generally, I've noticed over the years that what gets constituted as yuri by the masses is more generous than what gets constituted as yaoi. The former can often include anime with just hints of a potential "ship," while the latter seems to almost always require scenes much more explicit (often in more than one sense of the word) to convince everyone.

I'm for seeing all kinds of stories, so that includes stories of friendship of all kinds, as well as non-romantic "bromance" and "womance" stories, and stories that commit to letting characters actually have LGBT+ relationships. It'd be nice to see more "mainstream" series be willing to go through with having same-sex leads as a couple, even if romance is not the main point of the story. (Tangentially, I'd also like to see more series where the lead boy and girl are indeed just friends the whole time, with no hint of romance whatsoever.)

John Thacker wrote:

Also worth noting that, at least traditionally, both the BL and yuri genres are made for a primarily non-LGBTQ+ audience, with the stereotypical fan being a het member of the other sex who perhaps enjoys the frisson of violating taboos as well as preferring looking at two members of the opposite sex (often violating prescribed gender roles.) I have known plenty of Japanese real life BL and yuri fans who were anything but accepting of real life queerness. Most of what's called yuri, at least by viewership and sales, is yuri for the male gaze, most BL is for the female gaze. The reality of numbers makes that most profitable (as does the insistence on plausible deniability and innuendo and subtext, to the point where people will claim that anything with same-sex friendship is yuri or BL, even if the actual subtext seems quite lacking. Conversely the amount of yuri or BL doujinshi for shows without the least bit of canon innuendo has always been popular.) Hence also the Class S stereotypes of homosocial environments leading to behavior that can be dismissed as a product of an environment without alternatives, experimentation, etc. Yuri on Ice was notable for avoiding this, treating the situation as normal rather than violating a taboo. Quote: It's just a little surprising because of how conservative Japan is about the LGBTQ+ community. It has to be understood in the appeal of violating a taboo for many (though not all) fans. Japan has incredibly low rates of out of wedlock births, and that complements the NTR genre's appeal rather than contradicting it. Certainly in the more porn like genres, the 男の娘 genre adheres more to a Greek understanding of sexuality than our modern LGBTQ friendly understanding.

Some of this has some truth to it but I think people sometimes overplay how big of a majority it is. People will claim yuri is written by horny men. A decent chunk of yuri, especially the popular titles people over here actually know about because they got anime, are written by women and sometimes openly queer women. Sweet Blue Flowers, Bloom into You and Kase-san were all by women. The author of I'm in Love with a Villainess is a lesbian, so is Akiko Morishima and many more, just for a start. And there's lots of yuri that discusses being queer, including the difficult parts that aren't easily consumable, and even pushes back against Class S stereotypes. The Yuri is My Job manga does that (the anime will probably not get quite that far) and so does Bloom Into You. Even male yuri authors like Iori Miyazawa have spoken out against treating being a lesbian as "just a phase" and said men thinking about how they can get with lesbians is spam you should delete. There's always been yuri that's been transgressive, and it progresses as a genre along with the rest of the world.

And we recently had yuri author actively campaign for marriage equality- we might be seeing more of that. She Loves to Cook She Loves to Eat was even popular enough to get a live action adaptation despite very much not catering to the male gaze.