Forum - View topicAnswerman - Are Streaming Revenues Improving The Lives Of Animators?
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Pierrot.
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I think Cygames will do it sooner or later since they're so rich they have no idea what to do with the money they have. Recently, they made their own animation studio and if I recall correctly their producer said they wanted to make a positive impact in the animation industry by making sure their animators aren't underpaid and to make anime without outsourcing. |
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pajmo9
 Posts: 630 |
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I would think you would also have to consider the negative impact that streaming has on other aspects of the anime industry such as physical media. Assuming that it is streaming that's causing the sharp decline in a lot of Blu-ray and DVD sales in recent years it would have to make up that lost Revenue before it could start making an impact on the industry.
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Cutiebunny
 Posts: 1755 |
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After so many animators have spoken about the conditions of beginning animators and the crowdfunding efforts of Animator Supporter's Group, I would have thought that those who were more than just casual fans knew that those making their shows weren't receiving any benefits from their viewership. There's a reason why those starting out in animation studios either reside with parents/relatives or receive subsidies from them. Even working 40+ hours a week, they aren't earning enough to cover the cost of living in Tokyo.
I've often thought that distributors like Crunchy should do more. Yeah, it's great that you paid $100 million in royalties, but the people that are primarily receiving that money are producers and those that hold the copyrights. The grunts doing the labor (likely) aren't getting a monthly pizza party out of it. Studios could sell the actual artwork that goes into making these series, and I'm sure companies like Crunchy could easily find buyers in the US. I would (and have) bought lots of background artwork from previous anime works. Some of them are works of art in their own right. Or, distributors could arrange things so that a certain percentage of royalties/licensing fees goes to the animators themselves. I really would like to see more done in this area, and it really saddens me that 3+ years later, the only project out there that seems to be trying to fix this is the Animator Supporters dormitory project. |
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#861208
Posts: 423 |
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As someone who watches pretty much exclusively singing-bishounen shows nowadays, let me tell you they're pretty much the same as shonen shows. Whether the super-genki modern teenagers are trying their best at singing, sports, fighting, or whatever... by "demographic", I don't mean "90% bishounen cast vs. 90% bishoujo cast". On one hand, anime needs to be something other than that. I feel like there are those types of anime, and then there are the sort of, military/isekai/mecha/LN-based or game based things that... if you've seen enough of them, they all have the same sort of tone. Again, I love a lot of shows that fall into that category, like Code Geass. It's not a bad thing to fall into either category, I just wish those two categories weren't 90% of anime. But on the other hand, even with that issue, anime is still more varied than any other medium. And this is what I mean, really... out of people who are aware of anime, but not into it, how many do you think there are who know about the idol shows and otome game shows? vs. how many people are aware of anime, but think it's all Yugioh. And how many people do you think there are who aren't really aware of anime - as in, they don't really know any anime fans - but would be interested in some of those shows? e.g. Johnny Weir getting really into Yuri On Ice, or the time a cycling magazine had an article about Yowamushi Pedal. Also, my mom showed a bunch of people in her office some of TsukiPro's music, and they really liked it. These are people who aren't anime fans at all, and would never get into shonen anime. Basically, the international anime industry needs to stop presenting anime as just one genre. They need to tell the people who would love SolidS but would never watch Naruto, that SolidS exists, because they don't know. This stuff is good music, and it deserves a more appreciative audience. It deserves to be loved by people who appreciate music, not just people who like it because they love Soma Saito from a bunch of other shows. Not just people who liked Shonen Jump when they were teenagers.
This is a false dichotomy. Producers = the people who paid for the show, who, as has been said, lose money 9 times out of 10 from this, and barely break even overall. The producers pay the animators the same amount per episode for ten shows. Only one of those shows makes a profit, and that profit has to give them back everything they spent on all ten of those shows - plus wages for their staff, rent for their offices, and all their other expenses. Choosing which shows to make - what to adapt, what sort of original series to have made, which studio to hire to animate what, which writers, voice acting directors (who would then cast the voice actors), music composers, etc... that's its own expertise, and that deserves respect, too. Those that hold the copyrights = the manga artist/ light novel author/ game studio etc. Surely you're not saying they don't deserve to be paid. And then there's all the other artists involved in the anime - the aforementioned musicians, voice actors, etc. They need to get paid, too. (It's probably the case that seiyuu don't make that much from the actual recording of the anime, but from events and concerts, music sales, etc.) Also, a budget doesn't just get divided into wages. There's materials, transport, office rent, etc. - those things cost money. The physical tools of animation don't just materialize out of thin air. "But computers-" yeah, those aren't cheap either, in case you haven't noticed. Especially the ones that can run that level of advanced graphics software. The software engineers, pencil manufacturers, train tickets, car insurance/repair, office rent, office electricity... adults shouldn't have to tell each other these things on online forums. Everyone should have learned this in high school, middle school even. What it really takes to run a business. This stuff is so complicated and I'm sick of seeing people not understanding that. I'm sick of seeing people thinking there are just "mean, corporate, greedy bosses" and "poor starving artists". That's just... not a healthy way to look at the world. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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Unfortunately, most of the industry (on both sides of the ocean) seem to have given up on that idea. This is EXACTLY why I argue VEHEMENTLY against all the Live-Action remakes of anime. There is absolutely ZERO reason why it should be a great idea to do a "live action" version of an anime. But animation is not "for adults", so we gotta have live actors in there if you wanna sell to a wider audience. |
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Cutiebunny
Posts: 1755 |
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Whoa...slow your roll. People, including myself, understand stuff costs money. Although I am amused that you seem to think that animation companies cover all these things for their employees. I've attended enough guest panels at conventions to hear that things like commuting costs are rarely covered. Toei Animation was pretty harsh to Kazuko Tadano while she was working on the Sailor Moon R movie. ..And yet, what is happening is exactly what you're complaining about...corporations are starving those on the lowest rung of the corporate ladder. While this is not likely done with malicious intent, it IS happening. There's no reason that the CEO of any company in the US should be making over 30x what the lowest paid employee makes. I'm all for people putting in hard work to get there, but 30x...? That's just greed. I'm not saying that the income disparity between the newbie inbetween animator and the head of a company like Aniplex is that much. But trying to excuse that that's the cost of business or using the old standard of "That's how it was during Tezuka's time, so that's how it'll always be" is pathetic. While I feel that it's important for those entering the workforce to pay their dues, there's a difference between living frugally and barely being able to afford to eat. It's for these reasons that I largely refuse to buy Blu-Ray releases. Yeah, I have my Crunchy paid membership and I'll buy the occasional shirt or tchotchke, but until I start seeing some of these funds go towards improving the lives of the people working on the production end of things, I'll save my money and give it directly to them instead (ie. through commissions at conventions or through crowdfunding efforts). |
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TheAnimeRevolutionizer
 Posts: 329 |
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I've been rather reserved in this regard, but quoting a man I know: What was your first clue?
I got my first dose from the second chapter of Oh My Goddess! And yes, if anything that chapter has to portray, it is the accurate depiction of anime animators on crunch. Bless you Belldandy and Kosuke Fujiyama for having clarivoyant emotional energy divination. And not to turn the conversation 180 degrees, I hope I am not, but honestly, I hope Netflix has a good grasp of knowing what they are doing with their new enterprise in investing money into the anime industry. As we've all seen in the past, it's going to take more than just blindly throwing money at various startups and any show idea presented (ahem Neo Yokio coff) and as we all know, show biz is "a hideous bitch goddess". Also, while I'm sure that championing for improvements in animator's pay and treatment is a good thing, don't hold your breath if you expect a corporation/company to change that. Money is the first thing on their list. I would go on and on about this topic, but you know, it's all up to the animator world in Japan to decide to have a demand in change, a walk out, or a strike. Foreign pressure looks like an option to plenty who want to discuss about this topic, but I wouldn't advise it. |
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residentgrigo
 Posts: 2472 Location: Germany |
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I though that Deviman and B The Beginning were the first wave of anime that only got green lit due to Netflix. I guess not? The 300.000 dollar an ep. number is interesting to me. Where does it come from, as it seems kinda high for the average anime project. One 13 ep. season of anime would cost at least 4 mil. to put together. One 40 min. episode of CW´s Flash should cost a bit more that that but still... 300k is nearly 1/3 of what an ep. of Clone Wars cost, which is one of the costliest TV toons of all time, and Disney needed to bring down the budget of the followup show too, to satisfy profit margins. But Justin could be right. Japanese studios have become way too expensive to still get animation jobs for US animation works. |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6883 Location: Kazune City |
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"Can expect" generally refers to something in the future, not in the past. Maybe we won't see that sentiment in this thread, as ANN isn't as populated by the anti-industry crowd as other places. Maybe I'm wrong entirely, but the question-writer certainly seemed to be working a "CR doesn't give enough to creators, so it doesn't count!" angle. |
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Kadmos1
 Posts: 13583 Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP |
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I think Netflix will have a grasp of anime streaming when they get at least 2 licenses anime each season as weekly simulcasts that is available to every possible territory simultaneously. Of course, time zones are an issue. As far as broadcast dubs, I guess Netflix could dub them even after the subbed version is done but don't binge upload it. Do what Funi did with "91 Days": even if it is dubbed a season late, put 1 dubbed episode each week. If it is a show that is several years old, then by all means binge upload it dubbed or subbed.*
*That 2012 "Star Blazers" show is getting uploaded 1 dub and sub episode on VRV each week. This is where I think binge-uploading is fine. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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The sad fact is that the anime industry has little (or no) leverage. Japanese TV is already lots of variety shows and such. Just like America moved to a lot of "reality" TV because scripted shows got too expensive. Computer effects are also getting less costly to produce so that full animation is not needed for many "anime" items. Again, I'm not into the Live-Action adaptations because they herald the move AWAY from traditional animation. This is also why the industry panders to the Otaku audience, it's the one market they can absolutely count on. |
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Greed1914
 Posts: 4490 |
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It would be nice to think that Netflix would pay the studios better, and provide better pay for animators. After all, the company has the means, and if it ends up bypassing the production committee system, it wouldn't have to contend with partners insisting on lower costs to minimize their own risk. The problem is that just because Netflix can pay more, doesn't mean it will. Paying more would need to have some sort of benefit in terms of viewers. There would be some good PR to come from improving things for animators, but it would be up to Netflix to get the word out, and even then, it would be tough to know if any viewers are watching because they want to support such practices. Maybe it comes through in a better looking product because the animators don't feel like they have to rush as much, but again, it would be hard to know if people are watching because of that.
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Angel M Cazares
 Posts: 5464 Location: Iscandar |
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As much as I have criticized Netflix for not doing weekly simulcasts, dropping all the episodes at once with multiple subs and dubs is something I like. The problem with Netflix has been not simulcasting shows that were airing in Japan. Devilman Crybaby was exclusively streamed on Netflix and did not air on Japanese tv previously. Now that Netflix is moving into a truer anime originals model, I would like to see them drop a whole show in various languages worldwide (including the U.S.) at least once a month. Weekly simulcasts and simuldubs are irrelevant with this model. |
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Crext
 Posts: 211 |
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Another funny creative solution is for all the best animators to open patreon accounts and give reference pieces to what they've done/show cast quality. That way the community can give them a pay-rise directly, and it wouldn't really matter what projects they work on as long as they get motivated.
Doesn't even have to be individuals, can be a group representing the particular show. If someone put their heart and soul into a piece you'd rather much give that person the creds to motivate him/her to continue doing high quality stuff, instead of the in-between guy who could potentially add little/no value. It's like giving dollars directly to Leonardo da Vinci rather than paying for Mona Lisa through an auction. |
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Kadmos1
Posts: 13583 Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP |
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@angelmcazares: a weekly simulcast for 2 anime each season+standard binge-watch practice+what you proposed=perhaps best solution.
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