Forum - View topicShelf Life - Clanning Up
|
Goto page Previous Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
Steel Angel
 Posts: 274 Location: Texas |
|
|||
|
Havnt ordered Clannad just yet. Waiting for both boxsets to be fully released first. Not to mention i'll be in Japan for all of March so ordering things now would be kinda pointless.
Clannad was one of only 4 fansubs i've ever seen. I admit i liked the show. Though i rank them: Kanon 06, Clannad, Air personally. I agree with Bamboo, Clannad was very "easy to watch". The story had a nice pace and just flowed, and allowed me to watch it and not have to worry about it being too fast or too slow, which is often a gripe about many series. I do hope After Story, will also come our way, but given current problems in the world, at this point im not holding my breath. I think Abunai stated it best, for what you expect the show to deliver, it does so in droves, and if thats your thing, don't miss it. |
||||
|
||||
|
Cloe
Moderator
 Posts: 2728 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
|
|||
I actually love Betty, myself.  I have tons of DVDs filled with old Fleischer Studios cartoons at home and they're fantastic and strange and generally wonderful. But they're also horribly sexist and racist and while I don't think they should be hidden or censored, I'd definitely hesitate before showing them to more sensitive modern audiences.
I agree with the rest of your post. Well-written. |
||||
|
||||
Agent355
 Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
|
|||
|
OK, I'm still trying to understand the appeal of these series, because I actually want to know what I should expect if I choose to give them a chance...
Bear with me here...are these shows like Fruits Basket? I mean, a protagonist with problems of his/her own, but generally stable, well adjusted and even optimistic in nature, comes across a bevy of dysfunctional individuals. The show starts out with slice-of-life comedy, but evolves into drama (or melodrama) as each character reveals his/her particular dysfunction to the protagonist, who in turn tries to help that character grow emotionally despite said character's hardship. For comparison: Momiji's revelation to Tohru in Fruba (which moved me to tears  ). He starts out as a funny, sweet, childlike shota-con, but once you learn how he was rejected and mistreated because of his curse, the viewer sees him in a different light. If that is the "moe" feeling that these "Key" shows are trying to evoke, than I think I can quite understand their appeal to men and women.
We all want to be able to understand where the people in our lives are coming from (just like we, ourselves, crave to be understood) but very rarely do we get a chance to truly understand, yet alone help, others in difficult circumstances. the fantasy is that an ordinary Joe (or Tohru) can get close enough to another troubled human being to help him/her, and in turn benefit from the experience. I have a theory that all social workers want to be superheroes, and I suppose that there is a part in all of us that want to be social workers
Do I "get" it now? |
||||
|
||||
pparker
 Posts: 1185 Location: Florida |
|
|||
Thanks, and yes I understand on Betty et al. I'm just a freedom over security kind of guy. As appropriately and practically as possible, make the past known and keep it known. We may someday evolve to not repeat our mistakes. And, more personally, it is art. Lots of it has been inappropriate in one way or another in the past. The current generations don't have a problem with what those of the time did. It should be available and public to be appreciated for the values it does have. The only caveat to that is respect to creators who later felt remorse for their part in it. Well, part of the game I guess. |
||||
|
||||
Hikari06
 Posts: 55 |
|
|||
|
It's great to see Ouran get another good review. I couldn't believe that it was over when it ended either.
 And you can count me in as another girl who enjoys show like Air and Clannad. I liked Kanon 2006 when it aired also, even though Ayu's childlike character design kind of creeps me out now. It's hard to say whether Air or Clannad is my favorite, though, since the second season of Clannad is still airing.
|
||||
|
||||
|
vtnwesley
Posts: 171 Location: Natrona Heights, PA |
|
|||
Lol, you sound like you almost enjoy the uproar in the forums. It's kind of hard to tell with you if this is troublesome or funny. Personally, I don't know why I am so surprised the subject matter is such an issue/argument. Is it naive of me to think that Key properties could possibly EVER be spoken of on an internet forum without bickering? Out of curiousity, did people go into this kind of uproar over Ouren, or is this a special kind of fan rage reserved only for moe shows? |
||||
|
||||
Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
|
|||
|
Since it's totally okay and normal for bishounen to sparkle and parade around shirtless and such, there's not much to be in an uproar about.
It's not like men are going to say, "OMG! Those Ouran boys are just sex symbols!". No. We don't really care. EDIT: In fact, I found Ouran hilarious. I was able to look past the obvious female pandering and laugh so hard at Haruhi's sarcasm and down-to-earth personality contrasted with those of the host club. |
||||
|
||||
LiuXuande
 Posts: 201 Location: Chicago |
|
|||
|
Well, for Clannad and most Harem shows, the way I see it is: I ENJOY the semi-stereotypical aspects of harem anime because it's fun to watch. A perfect similar example is...people who go to see Adam Sandler or Jim Carray movies know exactly what they're getting into; they LIKE the humor that either actor portrays, even if it is very similar in all their movies.
In the same way, I cracked up at the "storage room" scene (won't post too many spoilers here) because despite being oh-so stereotypically tsundere, just seeing that character react in such a manner was hilarious, and I'm sure that was the full intention of the writer. Certain scenes or "skits" as I like to call them, especially in harem are clearly meant to be catering to that kind of audience; the kind that is actively looking for those stereotypes because it's amusing to watch. However Clannad, and even Kanon, are different because they try to meld scenes of "slice of life" where the anime tries to act realistic, with those moe type scenes. If you can learn to distinguish between the two, which is clearly obvious in Clannad, you can appreciate the genre more without having to blame them for catering to stereotypes...that is their intention after all, at least partly. Just like girls want a guy character like those in Ouran or Wallflower. Or that people want a shounen hero like that in Kenshin. |
||||
|
||||
|
vtnwesley
Posts: 171 Location: Natrona Heights, PA |
|
|||
Well, I think it's kind of an odd double standard of sorts. People seem all up-in-arms over some of these slightly less pervy moe shows almost solely because they don't like it and/or are annoyed by it. Ouren on the other hand had a lot of questionable content in it. I don't recall the sisters in Clannad making out or feeling each other up, but sure enough the twins in ouren do it every episode (more usually). For the most part I actually like a lot of things about ouren (Haruhi is awesome and Tamaki's "commoner" obsession is hilarious). I'm just not sure what makes one spectacle so much more offensive than the other. If anything I think the fans have it backwards. Maybe most of the characters in ouren being considerably less endearing is the point and I missed the train on that. I don't know. That said, yeah a lot of moe shows are a bit freaky and "sexxed up" for lack of a better term. The Key shows and various other less tacky harem shows (Tenchi and a very small handful of others) tend to be less like that and focus more on the characters or whatever comically absurd and/or tear-jerking plot. |
||||
|
||||
|
4nBlue
|
|
|||
Reading Fruits Basket (loaned the whole manga series from library last week) has been an interesting experience because I constantly notice the similarities between it and several visual novels. If you did not enjoy Fruits Basket only because of the pretty guys, there is a high possibility that you will find Keyani shows enjoyable. I think the debate about the character designs is stupid, because neither side is conna go, "OH they looked they like adults/high schoolers/kids. How could I have not noticed that before." Making the debate incredibly stupid. I can say that I think the main cast looks (except Fuko) like high schoolers in anime. BUT I can not expect everyone to magically agree with me. About the anti-moe bias in ANN. People have these things called opinions. Sometimes your and reviewers opinions don't match. No one blames the reviewer for shonen-bias when he complains about endless tournaments. The only time when I'm irritated by moe smashing is when someone (mainly users) makes comments about the fans being lonely pedofiles, which isn't really fair because they have no way of proving that. |
||||
|
Ceral
Posts: 28 |
|
|||
Can I come back to my original gripe? It was that Bamboo was treating Clannad unfairly. When I read the article, I felt that she was judging Clannad on a double standard. She's saying that the show is never going to be popular because it features "prepubescent girls" who look like 12y olds, a lot have already spoken out the opinions I have about that. I would just like to point out that "Ouran Host" who I think I can say is a show she loves and genuinely thinks is a good show based on her review, features a cast of "prepubescent guys"(No offense to Ouran Host fans, I'm just using this for argument, I think it's a fine show, I watched it to the end and enjoyed it.). So allow me to turn your own argument against you, if you were to show a picture of Ouran Host's characters to any American, how old do you think they would say they are? If you're going to use Ayu or Fuko as the standard for Key, Editors, meet "Honey". It's a double standard. And to talk about the story of Clannad as a "sick addiction" and to call it a "frivolous show" because of it's plotlines or the way it chooses to portray it's characters is a double standard. This is a fricken website based on anime is it not? If she were to judge every title by the standard she is judging Clannad, we would never hear the end of gripes about cute characters or extenuating plotlines. And when Bamboo says she likes the series, and then insults it in the same paragraph, calling it things like "frivolous", she may "like" the show, but I don't think that she thinks the show is a "good show". To her it might just be something that's entertaining, like an "Adam Sandler" comedy. And so, it's no wonder she doesn't think it would ever do well. (I think it's a great show, it's fun and entertaining, sure it focuses on cute girls, but at the core, for me, it's a melodrama about the importance of family. Not many would say that, even on a forum, especially this one, but there are an awful lot of high ratings for Clannad, I know I would never vote anything I thought was a frivolous show above a 7.) So much hate from you editors about Clannad, but a lot of the things you hate, are also in the things you really like, why judge based on those things? |
||||
|
||||
|
_Earthwyrm_
|
|
|||
Well, maybe it would be, if it weren't for that Honey and all the other men in Ouran are intentionally created to be parodies of Bishounen archetypes. |
||||
|
Ceral
Posts: 28 |
|
|||
So it's fine in a romantic comedy but not in a drama? Or are you saying you only enjoy the show because for you the characters are nothing but parodies? Would it be all right if a show was just a parody of Bishoujo archetypes? You must enjoy some of the melodrama in that show to some extent, Clannad has it's own parodies of their characters too, just not as frequent, is it that wrong if Clannad takes it's characters a little more seriously? |
||||
|
||||
|
_Earthwyrm_
|
|
|||
Whoa. What's with the barrage of questions? Answering in order... For the first question, I don't have anything against Clannad; not a thing. You've made an odd assumption there, since I haven't even commented on Clannad to say that it's 'not fine' how they handle their characters. For the others... Yes, yes, no. I just think that it's totally weird to compare a parodical character to a character played straight and then suggest that there's a double standard when they're received differently. The characters are to be understood in entirely different contexts from one another; there are completely different different expectations from each based upon their premise. |
||||
|
Ceral
Posts: 28 |
|
|||
Well you enjoy the melodrama and the parodies on the show then. me too  I guess we agree on something(And before I get accused of not understanding the humor of Ouran again, let me just say I wouldn't have have gotten past the 1st episode if it weren't for that humor.). As far as played straight goes, you don't seriously think that when Ayu goes "Uguuuu..." that I'm going "Aww, how adorable, I feel like I need to protect her!", I'm usually laughing, laughing pretty hard sometimes.
But, I think you'd agree with me, that you still have some expectations from both shows, comedically, and dramatically, you still take one character seriously, at least part of the time, in my opinion then, I think it's a double standard then, once you take one character seriously and say that the other character is wrong because they are more drama than parody. That's just my opinion. On the other hand, you can have gray areas if you want. You can draw that line anywhere in the middle that you like, but you better not cross it, on either side, because once you do that is without a doubt, a double standard. |
||||
|
||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group