Forum - View topicEnough tsundere already!
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poilk92
 Posts: 433 Location: Long Beach California |
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I just want to put my boredum and lack of interest in this anime mainstay into type. Honestly does anyone like tsundere? Also are Japanese people so insane that this is actually how relationships work over there?
I have no idea where this cliche started but if I had a time machine it is definitely one of the things i would stop from happening Oh and one last thing. Sometimes it works. For example, when they present it in a reasonable way such as the characters meet in a situation that put them at odds but they quickly hit it off. But this "omg i like you so I have to punch you" bs is terrible |
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Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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Curious how you can give Bakemonogatari an "Excellent" rating when the main female character, Hitagi Senjougahara, is a self-proclaimed tsundere character.
Do the lolis balance it out for you? |
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Basically, yeah. Or otaku are anyway. They wouldn't know a healthy relationship if it hit them with a rake. As for why they like it, my theory is that they like the tsundere trope because it feeds perfectly into a real world fantasy: That all those pretty girls who hate them are actually secretly in love with them and just act mean on the surface. |
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naninanino
 Posts: 680 |
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Personally, I like the tsundere type when it's made right. Too bad that it usually isn't. Goes for every archetype I guess. Tsundere types suck if they repeat the tsun-dere-tsun ad infinitum, which is common in comedies. The good tsundere type breaks out of the cycle and doesn't return to being tsun-tsun.
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23907 |
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I generally like tsundere characters because I like the dynamic of a female character who is not honest about her feelings but eventually comes around. No matter how many times I see it, I can't help but smile at the inevitable "It's...it's not like I _________ for you or anything!" statement. I reserve my hatred of clichéd characters for the dreaded Bland Male Harem Lead.
Oh, and knock off the generalizations about Japanese people based on entertainment devised for a subculture that makes up only a tiny fraction of the overall population. Only a full-on retard would draw conclusions this way. |
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Barachem
 Posts: 54 |
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Question meet answer:
I actually could tolerate Hitagi's tsundere behaviour because it's quite atypical for the majority of tsundere witnessed in anime, the bad type. Actually, she's a bit yandere as well, which makes things quite interesting. Another thing is that Hitagi is somewhat more subtle and sharp in her tsun-criticism and her dere-praise, much more eloquent than the average comedy tsundere.
But doesn't it grate you that most tsundere are poorly executed and are acting as if they're bipolar?
Actually, i can enjoy it when it's executed well, but mostly it's just the whole low-dimensional on-off issue like seen with Louise from Zero no Tsukaima, who just keeps stepping two steps forwards derdere, realizes that and then immediately and forcefully zips back to the tsuntsun starting point and in the course of three seasons of that anime, next to no progress in the relationship between Louise and Saito. I'll admit that it's partly due to the blandness of Saito and him lechering after any other reasonably attractive female cast, but most of this stems from Louise's near constant rejection of him while commanding him to never look at other females and if he does look at her, either it's not good enough or she calls a lech again. That's what many of us are basically put off with in regards to tsunderes. Another reason why Hitagi is a good tsundere, is that she actually gets into a relationship with Koyomi and actual , yet slow progression is seen with their relationship, which cannot be said with other tsunderes and their love interests. Actually Hitagi is a great mix between both types of tsundere, the one who warms up over time and the bipolar one, as she warms up to Koyomi over time but still has her cools and warm phases towards him, but then in a more mature and elegant fashion. That's one good way of displaying a tsundere. This whole tsundere thing started way back in the 80's with Maison Ikkoku's Kyoko, Ranma 1/2's Akane, Kimagure Orange Road's Madoka and of course other series that i don't mention. In the 90's Tenchi Muyo was famous for its slightly tsundere Aeka. I don't whether it was actually the turning point for the more realistic slow warming tsundere towards the bipolar tsundere, but for me Love Hina's Naru is slowly warming as well as bipolar towards Keitarou, just like Motoko, who is much cooler in the beginning but stays less bipolar. And i hated every bit of the behaviour both girls displayed, even though i have more admiration for Motoko, who did reconcile things in a better way. It's the flood of low-dimensional bipolar tsunderes, mostly found in silly comedies, i and others are tired of. The more sophisticated ones who are slowly warming and can be bipolar as well, are the ones we have no problems with. So i can understand what you mean with your post, although i don't like characters that are just bipolar towards their love-interest.
Yep, agreed that that is annoying as well, but it's stuff for a different topic. |
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egoist
 Posts: 7762 |
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Do I dislike Shana? Why would I, she's such a well developed character with tsundere traits.
Do I like Rin (FSN)? Of course. She's just a marvelous and realistic girl. Then how about Shiki (KnK), Hitagi (Bakemonogatari), Karen (CG), Yoko (Gurren Lagann), and Revy (BL)? Some major examples of why we can never have enough tsundere. Actually, tsundere is an excellent quality to have if they just develop the character properly. Sakura from Naruto? A fine example of annoying tsundere. Nobody will ever understand the torment Sasuke feels inside. My favorite tsundere characters are definitely the ones bordering yandere. No, no. Tsundere is just another kind of character and it's fine the way it be. |
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naninanino
Posts: 680 |
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The show that drew real attention towards tsundere and its kuudere variation was none other than NGE. Oldest one I know of, is Hayase Misa from SDF Macross who fortunately happens to be the good type tsundere. I can't really say if that type died out somewhere between now and then, or is it just that pure tsundere make random appearances. All in all, it's not the tsundere type that is at fault. It's just bad writing. |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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I do. Hell, my avatar features a character who borders on it.
Are American people so insane that they believe everything they see on CSI?
If I had a time machine, I'd go back to the moment you discovered anime and change the channel to a form of entertainment you'd enjoy. |
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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But was Sarah Palin's Alaska airing back then? I think not. - abunai |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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Whoa! Whoa! Sakura is NOT tsundere towards Sasuke. She fawned on him constantly. And she wasn't tsundere (at first) towards Naruto because she thought him annoying with no redeeming qualities. This changes later on (notably in Shippuden) and her current relationship with Naruto could be viewed as tsundere-like, though she seems to be gradually becoming more open about it as she grows more mature. In fact, this is part of Sakura's character development (yes, there is some character development in Naruto). At any rate, she never acted tsundere towards Sasuke. |
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egoist
Posts: 7762 |
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ailblentyn
 Posts: 1688 Location: body in Ohio, heart in Sydney |
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7988 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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I like most Tsundere's as characters because it adds dimensions, a certain level of unpredictability, and potential for development to the character.
Would I date a girl like that? Hell no, that's what restraining orders are for. |
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poilk92
Posts: 433 Location: Long Beach California |
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I really like the history lesson on tsundere. NGE started every other cliche that annoys me in anime so why not add another to the list.
I think Barachem explained Bakemongotari as well as it can be. I liked that particular series so much because it surprised me how well they did the tsundere and in fact made the relationship feel somewhat natural. It even gave me nostalgia for some of my earlierromantic trysts. But honestly I added one of the paragraphs in my OP just to explain why I think tsundere can be good "when they present it in a reasonable way such as the characters meet in a situation that put them at odds but they quickly hit it off" aka what happens in bakemongotari. For the record I love anime but I am not a fanboy, I do not gush over ever anime I enjoy I quietly put it on my shelf and start the hunt for more quality entertainment. If constantly seeking innovation originality and maturity means I don't like anime I think you have a lower opinion of anime than I do. I laughed when I read ikillchicken's interpretation of why tsundere is popular, mainly because I can see how it might be true. As someone who is infatuated with ball busting women I love a well done realistic tsundere, such as bakemongotari or to a lesser degree blue gender, where the female is a b***ch and situations dictate (whether it is some weird curse which she doesn't want anyone to find out about or being some sort of post modern terminex guy) that they are not romantic right off the bat, but once she gets to know that special someone she accidentally lets her guard down and a romance starts. The common "I like him but oh no he did ______ now I have to punch him and go back to not liking him for 10 episodes" pisses me off to no end and I think anime in general would be better off leaving that particular cliche behind. By the way its not just anime if you have seen the movie "You've Got Mail" thats good tsundere if you have seen the show "Community" thats bad tsundere [edit] I will consider any future association of myself and Sarah Palin a personal insult 
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