Forum - View topicWomen in anime.
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 Next |
Author | Message | |||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
PrettyKitty$$$$$
Posts: 119 |
|
|||||
Yeah, that was sort of an extreme counter example. I'm aware that such things aren't wide spread. I just wanted to make the point that cultural differences make a large contribution to how such things are perceived and also reported. Heh, this is starting to get really off topic and has nothing to do with anime, sorry folks!
|
||||||
~~EpiC~~
Posts: 243 |
|
|||||
Interesting thread. I was reading through this thread and I feel there is some inaccurate things that had not been attended to. Thankfully wanderlustking did share some of her insight on the matter. Going back a few pages there was this:
While OtakuExile took some liberties by exaggerating in a slightly condescending tone, his train of thought is a lot more informed than people in this thread gave him credit for. He probably knows something on the topic and everyone wrote him off because of the tone of his post. You wrote him off incorrectly. I think this thread could do with some more insight. Some people's arguments have suffered because they did not know. I'm not sure what ages your Japanese friends are exactly, but they are obviously of the younger generation. I almost feel as if they are giving you a rose colored view of Japan's present society. The situation for woman in Japan is of an entirely different beast than in America. While yes, woman are being hired into corporate society, they are very rarely given important jobs and aren't going to rise through most companies like men can. Your friends represent a vast minority. There situation is not reality for the majority. Though yes, woman in Japan do have a firm grasp of the household and could be seen as something like the 'leader'. Corporate Japanese men spend a crazy amount of time working, so the women have to pick up the slack at home. Obviously like OtakuExile said, things are changing with the new generation, but this is a excruciatingly slow change. |
||||||
Unicorn_Blade
Posts: 1153 Location: UK |
|
|||||
I perfectly realise all those things. However, I really hate this sort of simplification and generalisation OtakuExile used. It's like saying that all boys suck at learning languages and all girls are bad at maths. I have seen Japanese women who are happy with the said system that makes them feel secure, and in a way I can understand why they find it safer than the world I live in. And a lot of them dont feel discriminated (but probably feel sorry for European women who work their butts off only to be paid 30% less than men doing the same jobs, and need to handle homes and kids at the same time)- I have even heard some say that they hated Europe ebcause everything here seemed chaotic, while in Japan they knew what to expect and knew their place. But I have seen some, and not so few of them (and not all of them being what you call 'a younger generation', that did not want to be a part of it and moved to various countries, I have met some that decided that they can still can stay in Japan and realise their goals. And yes, some of my friends who work for big companies do give up the idea of having a family, or need to face being opposed by their families. Sure, if you look at the number of all working women in Japan they might be in minority, but saying that the whole of Japanese society believes that women should "walk three paces behind the man" is simply far from truth. And yes, I do understand the society is organised by completely different concepts, but that does not mean it should be simplified in a mere "Women are treated badly in Japan and therefore their characters are portrayed badly/innacurately in animeand it is impossible to portray a strong female character because they dont know how to do itbecause the concept of a strong female does not exist in this country"- which is what Otaku has been saying pretty much. |
||||||
poilk92
Posts: 433 Location: Long Beach California |
|
|||||
really just Iran. even other sexist violent countries have grown out of stoning women. Oh and the west has probably no CERTAINLY preformed the most heinous acts of human rights violations and genocide. So you are totally right about horrific human behavior being in all cultures |
||||||
dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
|
|||||
Other countries also stone women too. Pakistan, Sudan, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia are four that I can name off the top of my head. [Cultural/racial generalizations removed. This is not the forum for this type of thing.] However, I think we are getting a little astray from the actual topic at hand, so I'll stop now. |
||||||
poilk92
Posts: 433 Location: Long Beach California |
|
|||||
none of those countries do it. only in Iran is it legal punishment. The Muslims never had a holocaust nuked anyone enslaved a continent committed genocide based on the width of people's noses started a war so they can sell opium to china infected south Americans with syphilis for medical experiments. Muslims just fight asymmetrical wars, they are no where near as evil as western whites have been in history. And all Arab nations other than Iran and Pakistan are at war with the same terrorist as the USA so please don't infect people with your ignorance. We are all equally evil I'm sorry for straying to but i just couldn't let that post sit un-addressed if you want to argue feel free to pm me and i will set you strait WAIT i just remembered this is my thread! go off topic if you like as long as its interesting! |
||||||
RHachicho
Posts: 897 Location: Essex, UK |
|
|||||
Well Dtm42 frankly i am shocked we have come to blows before over opinions but frankly I find that racist offensive and downright ignorant. I have reported youre post and will take no further part in this discussion. I would also like to add that having lived in Iraq, Kuwait and Lebanon and having visited Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran and Dubai. I have yet to actually see or even hear of ONE person getting stoned to death. And only in Saudi and Syria and Kuwait (Not Iraq tho .. go figure people there where lovely) did I feel at all unwelcome as a half Arab. And even then nothing serious happened. How much experience with the middle east have you had Dtm42? To make such an outright offensive comment it had better be a sh*tload.
|
||||||
poilk92
Posts: 433 Location: Long Beach California |
|
|||||
you tell em bro-seph |
||||||
Keonyn
Subscriber
Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
|
|||||
Breaking News:
You are on an anime website! This thread has completely derailed at this point to a political discussion about cultures as a whole and this is not going to fly. This is still an anime forum on an anime website, so political soapboxing has no place here. If it continues this thread will simply be shut down. Being the original poster doesn't mean you can decide if the thread goes in to forbidden territory, and dtm you need to stop deviating threads and simply taking discussions to far. Now, let's get back on topic and discuss women in anime, not the structure of various world societies through the use of generalizations and wikipedia. Last edited by Keonyn on Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:57 am; edited 2 times in total |
||||||
dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
|
|||||
[Mod Edit: Done means done.]
|
||||||
ShinobiX
Posts: 889 Location: NY |
|
|||||
1. Hmm well clearly when I was 5-111 years old I wasn't expose to much anime so not much I can say there. Anyway, this is what I saw in my early years. Toonami and adult swim. I wasn't exposed to what the majority of anime is until 11+. Majority of anime is Romance, Highscool, Relationships, Shonen... 2. Will not change to some. I'm speaking presently and of course recently for the last couple of years. Obviously what I see differs from what you see. So let me clarify my interpretation of independence. Individuality. That means being self-sufficient w/out the help of the man. Autonomy. Essentially, they do not rely on the man. The woman solves her own problems or is the leader. In many animes, you see those qualities reflected in the male. You hardly see those qualities in the females. In terms of female character traits, I MOSTLY SEE DEPENDENCE. I hardly see something like MTH (that's debatable though kinda), Madlax, Noir, Gun Smith Cats, GITS, Slayers, K-ON... What anime I'm watching? Maybe not as much as you. However, need proof? Just look at what has been released for the passed two years and even now. If you want me to list fine. However I don't think I need too. 3. I'm not saying females shouldn't have faults. That's what makes a story. I concur. However, based on what I said in 2, I would like to see more animes where the women is the leader of the pack. More importantly not a figure head. I would like to see more women in anime not being used to strengthen the male's character(which happens a lot). I would like to see more women in anime not being exploited aka fanservice. I would like to see more anime where women are independent and don't make decisions because of the male. 4. lol I do too. However, I don't think I have to reiterate the qualities that he has and the qualities that women in anime generally don't. 5. Of course you, an avid anime lover, would have no problem. Maybe no1 in this forum would have a problem. Anime fans like us know what we love. However, ask that question to a typical anime viewer. Now I don't have any data to show you(proof is a big deal here idk), but I believe the typical anime viewer could not name ten self-sufficient anime women in the blink of an eye. 6. Uh yeah and then I said Japanese woman don't do that oO um "I highly doubt it." Anyway, you are saying that women do that here in America. Observing and getting details from an indirect source is one thing. Actually socializing with them, what I do since I am a teen, is another. Now I'm a guy so I can't really say what guys my age mostly think...I think the dudes know what I mean, but no. Guys chase girls. Maybe its different in other places, but typically, the rule is-"a girl that's known to chase guys is a slut." What I hear, what my friends say. Not going to even write my opinion lol. In anime, you often see the fantasy of 5-10 or even 20 girls chasing one guy. Multiple of things wrong w/ that, but since you had much to say, I'll keep it short. It implies debauchery. 7. I know anime is unrealistic, but like somethings, anime has a standard to maintain. There are reasons why the stereotype, "Japan most perverted" exists. Anime, clearly helped with that. You may see anime. Us anime lovers may see anime. The public sees a window to their culture. Humans are judgmental. A simple test would be to gather lets say 2,000-10,000 individuals who never heard of anime. Let them watch two hours of anime that is presently being produced(whats being produced now is what's popular. business. demand for it is high) per day for a week. Then, let them write an essay on how women in anime are portrayed. If I was one of the participants in that experiment, I could not write many positive things. The negatives outweigh the positives imo. The reason why this is imperative is because anime is important in Japan. Thus, it's not wrong or impossible for a person to assume that what Japanese animators produce, is a reflection of Japanese culture. I'm talking about the image some animes give Japan. I'll use myself as an example. As an adolescent, what I saw in anime was how I perceived Japanese culture. Call me ignorant if u will, but I believe many kids would make that false assumption let alone adults. 8. Well, like I've said, I have not watch nearly as much anime (and I guess cartoons) as you. I'm talking about what I'm exposed to, what I believe some people now know are exposed to, and my opinion on the matter. Clearly I'm talking about now and at least idk 14 or 15 years ago (the span of how long I've been watching anime). 60 years ago is irrelevant to me. Also, I'm pretty sure American cartoons don't do that anymore. Our strict censor laws prevents that. At least nowadays. Currently, I don't watch much American cartoons anymore. However, when I did, I remember characters like power puff girls, Wonder Woman (enough said I think), Toph, that water bender, cast of women in the JSL, Jade from Jackie Chan, Dora the Explorer, idk, idc, can't remember. Anime Lover. Contrary, from my experience, I generally see women play vital roles. They have more idk flare, cocky at times, but they are very independent. |
||||||
agila61
Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
|
|||||
Wait a minute: when you say, "obviously what I see differs from what you see", you are saying that you have seen different anime, or that you have seen every anime produced in the last couple of years and have seen different things in it? If its the first, you have no basis for saying anything more than "some". "I have seen some anime and based on that, all anime is ..." is clearly a conclusion that is unwarranted by the evidence. If its the second, most of what you are calling dependence by the female characters in Aria and Maria-sama ga Miteru is depending on other women, and then the "all women are dependent" has a massive blind spot for those other women who are being depended upon to help them with their problems. |
||||||
poilk92
Posts: 433 Location: Long Beach California |
|
|||||
not that i disagree with your point there is such a thing as co-dependency |
||||||
agila61
Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
|
|||||
|
||||||
wcsinn
Posts: 186 |
|
|||||
Wow - has this gotten way off track.
Lets try women in anime again. A few observations, Japan is a nation under-going change, while you guys may have Japanese friends who behave primarily in a westernized manner, there is still a huge portion of the population, both older and outside the major urban areas, that do not. I worked for many years for an American division of a Japanese owned firm which produced corporate training. Our flagship courses tended to be sales and management related. When we were asked to make these courses available in Japanese we were shocked to learn that this included removing all references to women in managerial positions. And yes, I do still know Japanese women who walk behind their man or any man for that matter. Bottom line is that anime will always reflect the Japanese culture in some ways, and that's not a bad thing. You don't go out to eat in an Italian restaurant and expect hamburgers. Learning about different cultures does not meaning changing them to fit your views and morals - then it would be your culture, not theirs. Personally I see quite the broad section of female behavior and personalities in anime - strong women, dependent women, women who's whole lives revolve around a guy. I don't know about you - but I see this same cross-section all around me every day in California. |
||||||
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
||
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group