Forum - View topicQuestion: Gundam SEED ep. 17.
|
Goto page 1, 2 Next |
| Author | Message | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Tony K.
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 11441 Location: Frisco, TX |
|
|||||
|
This is a question about a scene from Gundam SEED, episode 17, which aired last week on Toonami (8/07).
spoiler[ In the end where Sai confronts Kira, who's the one being the bigger jerk. I thought it was Kira because he threatened Sai, but a friend of mine says Sai is the bigger jerk for trying to charge at him. However, I would say Kira's attitude might've been a result of Flay's earlier actions, possibly clouding his judgement. The way I see it, Sai just wanted to talk to Flay and she just shugs him off and hides behind Kira. And after that, Kira, who I assume knows nothing of what's going on between Sai and Flay, just straight up tells him off and starts crying about his own feelings while claiming Sai has nothing to do with what's going on between Flay and himself. So who's the villain here, Kira, Sai, or Flay?] |
||||||
|
||||||
Haiseikoh 1973
 Posts: 1590 Location: Waiting for the Japanese 1000 Gunieas. |
|
|||||
|
Duh, Fllay.
How else can you label a psychotic b*tch whom spoiler[witnessed her fathers death by ZAFT, threatened to kill Lacus, and rambles in her sleep about Kira being her personal puppet? Not to mention her openess about hating Coordinators, yet easily accepting Kira.] |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Nagisa
Moderator
 Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
|
|||||
|
spoiler[Essentially, Fllay's manipulating Kira because she wants him to suffer for a) being a Coordinator, and b) "killing her father" (as she perceives it). She wraps him around her little finger and has him do her bidding until he burns out and crumbles. In the process, she creates a rift between Kira & Sai, among other things.]
Don't read the next part unless you want an episode 40+ spoiler. spoiler[Of course, eventually she comes to realise she really has developed feelings for Kira, she comes to her senses, grows out of her anti-Coordinator funk, yadda yadda...then Raww makes her 'splode. And Sai still carries a torch for her...just check the bulletin board next to his PC in Afterphase.  ]
|
||||||
|
||||||
Lone Wolf and Cub
 Posts: 301 Location: tumbleweed, South Dakota |
|
|||||
|
spoiler[Another thing to consider right now, is that Kira is a little bit blood-thirsty. When Izac killed all of those civilians in space, at first I think Kira was in shock, but later when he first encounters the desert tiger, his seed breaks and he goes ape crazy.
I think he is wanting revenge on Zaft right now, and that is clouding his judgement. Fllay is also obviously factoring into the equation here, but I think revenge is on his mind as well. ] Just a thought I spose 
~LoneWolf |
||||||
|
||||||
zaphdash
 Posts: 620 Location: Brooklyn |
|
|||||
|
Well, it's been quite a while since I saw that part of the show, but in addition to what others have already said, I'll take a crack at tackling this.
I don't know that there's anything "going on" between Sai and Flay that Kira would be unaware of. They had been a couple (arranged by Flay's father), but when her father was killed, she broke off the relationship. Sai, as Nagisa noted, still has feelings for her and tries to talk to her. Kira knows all of this, but he's emotionally unstable and has to rely on Flay's support, so he really doesn't want Sai trying to work his way back in with Flay. Kira, quite simply, was a total jackass in that scene. It was due mostly to the pressure he faces with the constant fighting and the personal suffering he endured after his inability to save the shuttle, combined with his personal feelings for Flay -- basically, all the components of his aforementioned emotional instability. Flay was manipulating his feelings, so she's the real bad guy in the long run, but Kira's pretty guilty in this scene as well. He and Sai are friends and he knows that Sai still has feelings for his ex, but he doesn't really care. He doesn't want Sai moving in on Flay again, even though she treated him really badly and, in my opinion, deserves an opportunity to talk it out with her. As I recall, she basically just dropped him (right in front of everyone else, too) when her father bought it. The viewer obviously knows that she had to broom him so that she could start using Kira, but Sai never got a very good explanation (and if he knew the truth, neither he nor Kira would be too happy with it anyway...). In short, Flay is the villain -- but in this particular scene, Kira is her (somewhat unwitting) accomplice. |
||||||
|
||||||
DragonofHeaven
 Posts: 115 |
|
|||||
|
spoiler[I think Sai is completely innocent; he did nothing wrong and was a loyal friend. He just happened to take all the heat from the others. Flay cut ties with him in front of everybody(completely tactless, no privacy whatsoever) in order to secure the real prize, Kira. Kira does not even allow Sai to talk things out with Flay, pressured by his own emotions and manipulated by Flay's feigned affection. Therefore, Flay plays out to be the real villain, hurting both Kira(unbeknownst to him) and Sai. Kira makes a rift between Sai and himself out of desperation and emotional stress; I don't think he made an ass out of himself in that one scene because he reveals his true feelings by voicing them aloud; still, he definitely was no hero in that situation.]
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
Tony K.
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 11441 Location: Frisco, TX |
|
|||||
|
Great, I'm glad to see I'm not crazy for thinking Sai was innocent. So I guess I'm right and my friend is wrong...
 . Thanks everyone! 
|
||||||
|
||||||
Joe Mello
 Posts: 2308 Location: Online Terminal |
|
|||||
|
Yes, it seems like Flay is the girl everybody loves to hate. YAY!!! ^__^ Does there seem to be one in every Gundam incarnation or am I just overstating my own naviete?
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
Tony K.
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 11441 Location: Frisco, TX |
|
|||||
0083 and 08th MS Team? I found Kou and Shiro a little more annoying than Nina and Aina. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Nagisa
Moderator
Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
|
|||||
I dunno...Nina (0083) & Relena (Wing) are more outright obnoxious than anything else. You don't "love to hate" them, just hate them. Cima (0083) doesn't get much development until post-series, though I personally enjoyed her character a great deal. Aina & Karen (08th MS) are very enjoyable and well-written characters, and Christina (0080) is rather popular, too. I don't think G had any really detestable female characters, while just about everyone in the Gundam fandom absolutely hates Quess Paraya (Char's Counterattack) with a passion. Fllay...people seem to go different routes with her. Some just hate her, while others find her fun to analyse, and still others even feel sorry for her...mostly towards the end of the series. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
zaphdash
Posts: 620 Location: Brooklyn |
|
|||||
I'd say it splits about half and half. First Gundam, Gundam 0080, the 08th MS Team, Zeta Gundam, F91, G, X, and Turn A lack any specific hatable characters (although in my opinion the entire cast of 08MST was pretty uninteresting). 0083 has a pretty terrible group all around, but the aforementioned Nina is pretty awful all on her own. ZZ doesn't have just one character to hate, but an entire cast. Puru, the character you'd expect to hate most, is the only decent one in the show. CCA has Quess, who's rather irritating, although I'm not sure she's quite as bad as a lot of people make her out to be. Victory Gundam is home to arguably the most hatable character of the Gundam franchise, Katejina Loos. Wing and Endless Waltz, of course, have Relena (and also Dorothy Catalonia, who people don't seem to complain about much but who I found incredibly annoying). And SEED obviously has Flay. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Tony K.
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 11441 Location: Frisco, TX |
|
|||||
Heh, heh. I just remembered that Kou and Shiro both have the same dub voices. Hmm....  .
I like Aina a lot, and Nina was OK. Relena was sort of annoying, but not really, to me anyway. Rain and Natasha are the only women I remember from G, and they didn't bug me either. And yeah, Quess is the worst (*appaluds after seeing her get blown up*  ).
|
||||||
|
||||||
kainzero
 Posts: 309 |
|
|||||
|
the way i see it, there's no good guy or bad guy.
it's been a while since i saw the scene (a year) but i remember really hating fllay. so manipulative... and i guess we've all grown to hate manipulative people. and to everyone who already saw the rest of the series: spoiler[does anybody know wtf went on between kira and fllay at the end? i thought that was just pure bull and nothing really happened. you can say fllay liked kira but in the end nothing really made sense. not even the naked shot after she died.] |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Haiseikoh 1973
Posts: 1590 Location: Waiting for the Japanese 1000 Gunieas. |
|
|||||
How can we hate her when spoiler[she turns out to be a turncoat for the Fedi's] near the end? |
||||||
|
||||||
|
zaphdash
Posts: 620 Location: Brooklyn |
|
|||||
Spoiler warning, not just for SEED, but various shows (First Gundam, Zeta Gundam, Victory Gundam):spoiler[It was supposed to be reminiscent of the Newtype death scenes of the Universal Century (Lalah's, in particular). Newtypes can transcend time and space, life and death, so when Lalah was killed, her consciousness continued to communicate with Amuro (the same happens at the end of Zeta Gundam, when Kamille receives spiritual support from all his dead comrades, and at the end of Victory Gundam when Usso's dead friends direct him through Angel Halo to try to find Shakti). The thing is, Kira and Flay are *not* Newtypes. The scene was supposed to remind of that, but because they aren't Newtypes, in actuality nothing happened. According to Fukuda, that scene was called "What Flay Wanted To Tell Him," and everything she says in that scene, her apologies and everything, are her true feelings that she actually never got a chance to tell Kira. According to Fukuda, Kira actually didn't hear or see any of that stuff during that scene. The anime kind of pulls you both ways; it seems like Kira did indeed get quite an earful from Flay in that scene, but at the same time the show kind of leads you to believe that it all took place within an instant. Fukuda says that Flay wanted to say that stuff to Kira but never did. The show sort of seems like she did, but maybe not. I go with Fukuda since it's his show, but I guess you can believe what you want about that scene.]
spoiler[That makes her even more hatable. She's dishonest, a traitor. Besides, the Feds were pretty bad in 0083 too, so she was going from one group to the other, but neither group was good. The only good guys in 0083 were the Albion crew, who she continued to fight against until Kou iced her.] |
||||||
|
||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group