Forum - View topicWhy DBZ would be considered "bad"/The fascination.
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DBZAOTA482
Posts: 10 |
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Hello,I am,in fact,a fan of the Anime "Dragon Ball Z".
What I'm going say is why people would have beef with one of the most influential,& groundbreaking anime ever created. 1.The Butchered English Dub - Many people say DBZ has no depth,one dimensional characters,& criticize it for the "obnoxious" voice acting,but I believe that's only present in the english,but in the Japanese version,they had real personalities(they may not be very complex though except Freiza maybe),depth,& the voice acting was far less obnoxious,& the music's is more smoothing as well epic at the same time.Most haters base their opinion on the english dub seemingly,I feel why most people who hate DBZ seen the english dub 2.The Fanboys - We're not talking about fans in general,the particular Fanboys who praise the show obnoxiously with such terms as "DBZ ROX","DBZ IS THE GOD OF ALL ANIME","DBZ's DE BEST ANIME EVAR",or "GOKU,& DBZ'S THE STRONGEST". 3.Animation - What alot of people forget that DBZ was animated in 1989-1996,& plus the style was different from most anime,sure some scenes were cheap,but it was very well animated for the time 4.Popularity - DBZ is arguably the most popular anime of all time,but when you really liked something before the hype,you might tend to like it less and less when it gets more popular which had led to the cancallations of alot of anime.Many anime fans complain that DBZ gets too much product placements & say that there is so much better stuff out there.Many try to downgrade DBZ in plans to dimenish it's reputation,including IGN Okay,the fans must have gotten the picture,now,let us continue on to why the fans enjoy this series to the small,yet very passinate hate base of DBZ 1.characters - the characters in DBZ are likable & memoriable,the characters aren't really one-dimensional,the story is character-driven,& the character developement is nice too 2.The series trangresses in almost all "good" art of anime 3.the plot twists - the show did have a plot,it was just very long,the show surpised us with stuff like when Goku discovered he wasn't a human,or when Vegeta blow himself up 4.the storyline - Yes it had one,& it was actually it's high-point,the story was truly complex,jarring in many themes,it wasn't the lather.rinse.repeat cycle people say it is,the storyline was like a soap opera 5.the action - sure the fights wre drawn-out,but they had meaning,& there were fights that had intense emotinal backing to them,& the fights are over-the-top intense action The show did have some flaws looking back at it,but what doesn't have flaws?Of course Kai is made to fix that anyway. I think the haters should watch the show in japanese with an open mind,& till then,your opinion can't be solified,& to the fanboys,calmed down on the praises,if you think DBZ's the best anime ever,use a calmer term like "possibly the best anime ever made.",elaborate,& be sure you've other REAL anime(not stuff like Pokemon) The series isn't supposed to be at Evangelion-like level seriousness,it's also supposed to be fun(remember fun?) What'd you think,agree,disagree,do you believe stuff should be removed,or added? |
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gundam83
 Posts: 93 Location: Caribbean |
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There are people who hate Dragonball Z?
 I never knew that I started a thread a few months ago called "the anime that made you like anime
A lot of people always said DBZ got them into anime and I also agree with them. Loved it in japenese more emotion 
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hissatsu01
 Posts: 963 Location: NYC |
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Just for once I'll break my rule concerning DBZ, which is to say I'll actually make a comment on it. Like many long time anime fans, quite a few of the shows I loved when I first got into anime have not aged well. But DBZ is an exception. It was one of the first anime I saw in the early 90s on VHS fansubs. It was very popular with the people I knew then that were into anime; they watched the show, played the SNES games. They loved it. I say it was an exception, because I feel the same about it now as I did then: WTF is good about this crap? It put me to sleep then, still does now. And this is why I don't normally comment on DBZ; I won't be saying any more. Flame away if you wish, but it's just how I've always felt about it.
Last edited by hissatsu01 on Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ponlork
Posts: 102 |
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I can't recall much of what DBZ was all about but I know that I enjoyed it immensely during it's heyday. My theory is when a show's popularity reaches epic proportions, somewhere down the line it's going to start becoming cool to bash on. Plus a lot of fans are fickle-minded, the moment they find something better they're quick to disregard a previous series like it was yesterdays news. Me personally, if I ever liked a series no matter how much it has fallen off, it stays with me forever. I don't care if it's not "in" anymore if a show ever made me follow 100+ episodes or damn there put a tear in my eye then I'ma stick with it and when someone who was once committed to a series but then decides to abandon it once it becomes too popular are either the trend followers or the ones who like to brag about how they liked it before it was cool. I was and still is a fan of DBZ but I probably won't mention it as much anymore because it's kinda played out, you hardly see people cosplay as DBZ characters at cons anymore, and everything that's needed to be said about DBZ has been discussed to the utmost capacity so it's kinda cliche to speak on it now but there's no denying it's impact and legacy.
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Shichimi
 Posts: 349 |
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I don't think anyone's going to flame you for having an opinion, but it would be interesting to hear why it put you to sleep. My take on the series is that while it is entertaining, I don't feel it's particularly outstanding on any level. I think a major contributing factor that stops me from enjoying the show more is the interminably long fights that can occur (DBZ Kai is meant to address this somewhat, I think). Maybe there's a missing element of nostalgia because it wasn't one of the first shows I saw? In any case, as has been said, there's no denying its impact on a lot of fans. |
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RHachicho
 Posts: 897 Location: Essex, UK |
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I don't really mind DBZ in itself. I don't think it is a great show but it's a good old slice of action with godly powers thrown in for good measure. It's the fans that go on and on about it like it's some kind of high art that bugs me. That and the fact that it is the show that set the bar for shounen shows that came after it in terms of recycled footage and delayting tactics. It also pretty much introduced the idea of hurling moon sized balls of fire at each other rather than actually doing hard to animate stuff. It's a good old show but it's waaay more popular than it deserves. However while I can understand some people harboring resentment to the show itself. Surely to me it has always been the fans that ate that up like it was megacrack. But in the end it's not really their fault either they just like what they like. And though we may have been annoyed at how some of the bars have been set. Honestly there is nothing anyone can do. Popular shows cater to the masses they pretty much have to.
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EricJ
 Posts: 876 |
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5. The Pacing - Usually ONE bout per episode, against an enemy for which six or seven bouts will only begin to scratch him...With the void filled in with any amount of posturing, pre-fight trash-talking, humor plot-filler, training exercises, and reminders of what dangers our hero faces. Be glad you live in a country where it's aired daily instead of weekly. 6. The Buu Saga - Near the end, just when Cartoon Network's patience was wearing thin, was starting to get snitty about having to show series it was "annoyed" with and beginning to school-bully them in the popular media, we got the Majin Buu saga: How LONG did you think this arc was going to go on?--Take a guess and double it... One story arc taking up nearly two entire regular seasons, taken to every ludicrous extreme of exterminating the planet, and like some demonic Energizer Bunny, the arc kept going, and going...Only adding to the mainstream's poking at the "filler" in the show, and the network's using it to snub all mainstream's perception of anime in general. (That said, it's much better watched from the DB:Classic days, with some better context of Toriyama's underlying silly tone, and a clearer sense of how eccentric our heroes are, but the mainstream only saw something quick-packaged and Asian, and rushed for the usual quick cultural judgments.) |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8502 Location: Penguinopolis |
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It's easy to pick on Dragon Ball Z. It's a relatively old show that was a lot of people's first anime, and people love to shun their first anime because it somehow shows that their tastes have matured. And really, tastes should mature, but a lot of people really overcompensate by hating on it more than it need to be.
Yes, it's longer than it needs to be. It's 291 episodes and there's a lot of filler/padding. Yes, it's not a terribly complex show. It's an action/adventure show with shades of wuxia and science fiction elements that are kind of hastily introduced. It's a fairly simple show with not a lot of maturity to its plot or settings. Yet, it's still a pretty fun show, has a cast of colorful characters, and is one of those anime I would consider a non-perishable food stuff. If there's an anime apocalypse, you would stock up on DBZ and put it in your fallout shelter. It's not an amazing delicacy, but it does the job in a pinch. But before I finish, I'd like to address the "Dragon Ball as opposed to Dragon Ball Z" thing. They're both the same story. DBZ is DB. It's all the same story. It's from the same one manga. There is no DBZ manga (except to Viz, but that's to avoid confusion for North American customers). "Z" is a meaningless designation for the animated version. It's intended to be seen as one story. It's true that when Raditz arrives it gets more science fiction action-y, but it's essentially the same story, complete with shonen spirit and adventure (going to the afterlife, going to different planets, etc). People who get too sold on "This is martial arts action and that is sci-fi action" are the victims of Funimation's practices. It's all the same show. |
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KanjiiZ
 Posts: 661 Location: Central Coast |
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I didn't mind the Buu Saga as much as I despised the Other World Tournament. Never has filler been so terrible. It added nothing to the story and at best introduced the weakest character in terms of relevance, Pikkon.
Dragon Ball is an extremely flawed show, even with Kai. There are several villains that become trite, repetitive moves, bad characters, but it's enjoyable if you're in the mindset of a young kid or have any nostalgia attached to it. |
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ArsenicSteel
 Posts: 2370 |
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I never considered the possibility that a person needs to have an altered state of mind or live in the past in order to enjoy DBZ. Then again if I don't like something I give reasons why and not belittling guesses at another person's thoughts in order to undermine their opinion.
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Vracer111
 Posts: 194 |
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I don't hate DBZ per se, as I never have watched a single episode, but I know it's not something I am interested in.
And I never will watch DBZ in any incarnation, because: 1. Fighting series with superpowers and special moves, most shonen, and 'kid animes'/card game animes are automatic non-interests to me. 2. Is it MUCH longer than 50 episodes... If a storyline can't be done in 50ish episodes it's either massively overcomplicated or the story has no concrete direction and time is wasted on meandering around on extraneous things. Personally I prefer 24-26ish episode series. DBZ has always been on my 'not interested at all in it' list... |
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EricJ
Posts: 876 |
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So, like we said: Try the Dragon Ball Classic series, now that Funi has it back out again. It's not an "incarnation" of DBZ, seeing as it technically came before the plot started, hence it's a little different, being aimed at a kiddie audience. The arcs tend to be confined to self-contained seasons (such as the 13-episode S1), and any other reason beyond that, well...you'll get the idea. 
...That way, at least, you'll have a little more credibility before sounding off on shows you've never seen in your entire life. 
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penguintruth
Posts: 8502 Location: Penguinopolis |
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It's too bad you'll miss out on Legend of the Galactic Heroes, a true masterpiece, and 110 episodes long. |
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Darth Joker
Posts: 84 |
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DBZ isn't bad, but it hasn't aged well. It's definitely a product of its particular time and place.
The big issue with DBZ when comparing it to more recent animes is pacing. Even the big shounen titles of our current era - Bleach, Naruto, One Piece - tend to have much faster pacing compared to DBZ. I personally don't recall any lone one-on-one fight in Bleach lasting more than three episodes. From what little I've seen of Naruto and One Piece, the same seems to be true for those animes as well. Meanwhile, the most prominent one-on-one fights of DBZ are frequently dragged out over a much larger number of episodes. You'll likely never see an anime with DBZ's level of pacing produced ever again. In the fast-paced internet world, people simply wouldn't have the patience for it, period. (As an aside, this might be why 13-episode animes are on the rise: People want faster, quicker plots to compliment faster, more hectic lives). But back in the 90s, when a lot of anime fans were still constrained to what was airing on their local TV stations, watching DBZ slowly move about its plot was certainly better than nothing at all. And I also think that DBZ was a very good gateway anime for comic book fans. Even to this day, Goku is considered anime's answer to Superman. |
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OranjiKun
 Posts: 6 |
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DBZ will always be a good 'all shounen classic to me,but nothing more.
I mean-yes,i started watching anime as a result of DBZ,but looking back on it-its kinda crappy
How ever,i don't think ill be bored watching a phew episodes of dbz even now. |
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