Forum - View topicSo, what about it?
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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Sorry for the vague title, but the point was brought up in a previous thread and I think it has validity: viewpoints of ANN staff, reveiwers and moderators don't have much representation for the moe, loli and fanservice crowd. To get a good cross sectional view of the anime community, someone must be in touch with fans that have these preferences as well. It would improve the diversity and quality of the site with representatives that have opposing viewpoints.
ANN has plenty of people who present anime and manga with a traditional, squeaky clean image so it's unquestionably biased. But there's lots of controversial and subversive things out there too that I think people should be more informed about, from informed sources which ANN is currently severely lacking. |
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ZakuAce
Posts: 525 Location: SE Wisconsin |
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Didn't Zac say they were looking to hire someone like that a while ago? So you can't say they aren't trying.
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Kimiko_0
Posts: 1796 Location: Leiden, NL, EU |
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Huh? I think they already cater enough to the fanservice/ecchi crowd. ANN needs more women.
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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A few things:
What does it matter what the staff or moderators think about that stuff? I can see wanting balance from people doing actual review/opinion work but who cares if about a mod or non review staff member's personal taste? They're perfectly capable of conducting themselves in a professional and impartial manner. Their personal taste in anime only comes into it when they're acting as a private poster just like you. Also, I think it's pretty unrealistic to throw loli into the mix. Unless your definition differs greatly from mine, we're talking about sexualizing little girls. You're free to think of that what you will but you're kidding yourself if you think it's unreasonable for the vast majority of people to have a problem with it. Finally, as for Moe/Fanservice...where exactly do you get this idea that ANN's reviewers are against those things. Theron Martin, who writes at least a third of ANN's reviews, is a big fan of those types of shows. He has frequently given good reviews to them. I mean, just look at his most recent one for HotD. He actually lists "mindless fan service" as a positive. Carl who in turn writes about a third of ANN's reviews himself is also by no means totally dismissive of this kind of thing. So what exactly is it that you want? I myself wouldn't mind seeing a bit more diversity from ANN since three main reviewers isn't that many. It seems to me that moe/fanservice fans are more than represented on ANN though. |
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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If only. If only. I would love to believe that all the reviewers here are impartial, but they're not. The world doesn't work the way it should.
I hate the idea and use of "Loli", but there's no denying that a significant percentage of international fans do like the stuff. So I'm torn on this; Loli fans should get catered to since their numbers are big, but I don't want them to get catered to. After all, given the shows that comes out just for them (or to be more specific, their counterparts in Japan), they are already well serviced.
Zac's against it, Justin's not too kind to it either although not to the degree that Zac is. Just listen to the odd ANNCast, and you'll see what Past is saying. And yes, there have been some reviews of Moe/Loli/fanservice shows that have been quite generous. But the usual attitude is that shows which purely offer fanservice and/or Moe and/or Loli are not as good. A sentiment which I agree with by the way. The biggest reason I believe is that too many directors go for the money-making pandering and miss out on making a decent production. |
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Zin5ki
Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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Do you request evaluative and discursive articles that express a personal approval of the content in question, or at least imply an acceptance of it? If memory serves me correctly, Richard J's review of Strike Witches does the latter. One is not in a position to tell whether similarly divisive titles will be evaluated in the same manner in future, however. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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I hired Richard J to do reviews of the moe/loli/whatever stuff because he writes solid reviews that explain why he enjoys the shows beyond "i liked it because I have a pavlovian positive response to moe genre tropes". He explains himself and reviews the shows based on their content, not because he's on a personal crusade for loli acceptance. That's what I wanted from a so-called "moe/loli reviewer" and that's what he's doing for us.
Coming up he's reviewing Kanokon and Strike Witches 2. We'll probably have him doing more in the future. No, I don't like moe stuff generally unless it's done really well (Haruhi, Toradora) but that's common knowledge and I don't review moe shows (rather than talk about them on my podcast from time to time). Instead I have what I believe is a diverse staff of critics, many of whom give very positive reviews to moe, fanservice and even loli shows. This is easily proven if you actually read our reviews. I realize there is a longstanding perception out there that "ANN hates moe", but that's an inaccurate, unfair generalization that ignores the facts completely, ignores what our actual content is, cherry-picks examples from years ago and is more about providing bored teenagers with something else to hate on the internet than it is an actual critique of our editorial bias. Speaking to the point about women, we have 5 regular staff critics by the way - Carl, Theron, Carlo, Hope and Lissa. Erin Finnegan writes Shelf Life every week and we just hired Gia Manry as our associate editor. While I'd like to have even more women on staff I don't think we're doing too shabby in that regard. Long story short I think with Richard on board (and if you actually read Theron, Carl and Carlo's reviews) we've got plenty of "representatives" here that are perfectly accepting of the material you're talking about. No, there aren't many in the senior full-time editorial staff (which is a whopping 2 people by the way) who are super in to it but I don't really see how that's an issue when we have so many staff critics who are. Not only that, I'm not hiring any more editorial staff for the forseeable future, so it's a moot point anyway. I'm very happy with the team I've put together and I feel like your viewpoint is being represented just fine. Were I incredibly unprofessional and bad at my job I would legislate opinion from my desk and demand my writers only review moe and loli content negatively and you'd never see a positive review of something like Queen's Blade or Dance in the Vampire Bund on this site. But I don't do that, and the evidence is all over this site. We have a very wide array of opinions and tastes represented here, and I'm proud of that. I would never tell one of my critics what their opinion should be nor would I change their opinion before their review was published. That would be called "being a terrible editor". whoops sorry wall of text! |
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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Ok that was a concise and adequate reply to my concerns, Zac. I've always respected Richard's views on a lot of the fanservicey, ecchi and moe-laden stuff, so bringing him into the mix offers a good deal of reassurance for me. Congrats to him btw for becoming an official reviewer.
I suppose a few of us have made it apparent that the aforementioned genres need love too. I can't speak for other fans of it, but I wouldn't have stayed a contributor to this site for so long if I truly felt that ANN was on some sort of crusade to scrub moe and loli from the English-speaking anime community. Thank you, Zac.
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Just to clarify a couple things:
Yeah...I never once said the reviewers act impartial. I said the mods and non-review staff do. As for the reviewers, I think the concept of a truly 'impartial review' is an oxymoron. If you disagree, that's fine. I'm not really interested in going into that whole debate though. That wasn't even what Past was requesting after all.
and just look at the bulk of the other stuff on ANN and you wont. This is what I don't get. Yeah, some people on ANN, like Zac, really hate this stuff. It seems that people like Past and others zero right in on this one extreme and then, even though the majority of ANN ranges from indifferent to downright accepting, start talking about how all of ANN hates this stuff. It's crazy. They say they just don't want everyone to hate it but really, they seem to want the opposite. They want no one to hate it.
I don't get that though. Even if you're a fan of these things do you really want that kind of show getting a good review? Is there not a difference in these people's minds between a good and bad show? (And if not, what exactly are they hoping to gain from a review?) I mean, I'm a fan of action shows. If a show's only appeal is a series of pointless explosions though and otherwise it's complete shit then I wouldn't call it a good show. That's not even to say I definitely wouldn't watch such a show. Maybe I still enjoy pointless explosions. If that's the case though, why even read a review? I don't need a review to tell me a show will be action oriented just like I'm sure these people don't need a review to tell them a show will be moe or fanservice oriented. If that's really all they care about then just skip the reviews and watch what you want to watch. |
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