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American Manga: Does it count?


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ShinobiX



Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Posts: 889
Location: NY
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:10 am Reply with quote
Um in the end they are all comics so who cares. Surprised there was a long debate over this lol
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dragonflyy



Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:41 pm Reply with quote
Depends what's meant by "counting"? Are American comics manga? No. But that's not to say we can't make comics that share similar styles and themes that are popular in manga. Or that there can't be cross popularity between fans.

The thing is, American comics are still so heavily dominated by the traditional superhero formats. Spiderman, Superman, Batman, X-Men, etc. There's also a distinct difference in the way our comics are produced, released, and marketed. Color pages, versus black and white, volumes, etc. So for comics that don't necessarily fit in with that model, especially those that don't involve superheros-- there's a bit of a gap in terms of marketing. Perhaps eventually, these authors will find their own niche, and other genres will gain ground. I think this is why the term "graphic novel" has also risen in popularity.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6360
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:09 am Reply with quote
Rozarie wrote:
Oh my Geeks are so obsessive... ( because I can't call you otakus it will be the same as saying here that manga is a "style" and an other debate would begin )

Manga > Comics with a Certain Type of Visual & Literary Art Published in Japan.
( Because hey. They Also Publish Spider Man. But That doesn't make it a Manga Right? )

The RAW word Manga does indeed only means Comic. Which range from Sailor Moon to Spider Man.
Same with Anime. Anime the raw word Only Means Animation.
Other Example Mecha, mecha can only mean Mechanical *Mecha Pen*

BUT Japanese THEM SELVES Tend to make one Raw word into a more Complex word.

Example:

Shojo = Girl
But Shojo Manga = Girl's Comic = Genre = Style of Art
And The genre has an art style and a story style
How ever an American Comic that it's directed towards a young female audience (which they are not existent ) does not make it a "Shojo Manga" even tough the raw word means "Girl' comic" lets say...

Barbie Comic
http://www.newkadia.com/Covers/L/B/Barbie/barbie39.jpg
http://www.lambiek.net/artists/b/brigman_june/brigman_june_91_barbie.jpg

It can't be called a "shojo manga" in japan. It is a "comiku" or "gyaru comiku" if you have to call it an specific way.

why?
1.- The Art Style. The Publishers. The Format. The Artist.
Even Tough The Audience it's the same. All the other factors avoid it to be a "shojo manga"



The Manga "style" comics. There's really no way to define it. Really. because Disney does have "big eyes, deformed anatomic proportions, brilliant colors , etc" all things you can say about a "manga style" but that doesn't make it an anime

You could say there is "east style comics" ( although chinese comics manhua does really have a very different style from manga BUT. The format style is similar as well as the plots the same with manwha ) and "west style comics" .

Manga is Comics originally published works in Japan that have a certain Art Style and a certain Plot Style that developed in the the 30's in its modern form. (because "manga" or "japanese comics" before the 30's were quite different than it is today )


I MY SELF Create "east style" graphic novels directed towards a female audience. I don't call it "shojo manga" Because I KNOW many geeks would get offended because
1.- I'm Not Japanese
2.- I don't publish in Japan
3.- I don't have the artistic level to be called a professional

Although I have only studied that genre of comic which is "Shojo Manga" ( NOR I never touched an American French or national comic ever in my life , nor I care to do so because I don't find it appealing my self. That doesn't mean it's not good I simply don't find my self related to them ) but still I don't have the requirements to call my work "Manga" and It's hard like to call it one way.

We can't call it comic because any real comic artist or geek would bitchslap us.

We can't call it manga because any geek or Japanese would bitchslap us.

Even tough it follows all the rules of the "art style" developed by Japanese during the post-war period , we still cannot call it Manga due respect.

I finally decided to call it Graphic Novel. Which involves more
, why? because it's not a comic. but it's not a manga either (because although the "visual" style is the same, it does not qualifies because it does not have all the factors it needs to be a manga ) . But it's art and plot style are more those of a "novel"

And It really does not offend that much of a population just a pair of people who really REALLY needs to get laid like ASAP

So ... Manga = Originally Published in Japan . Has a Certain Art Style Based or Sub Based / Inspired in the Art Style developed by Osamu Tezuka Primarily, Shotaro Ishinomori, Fujio Akatsuka and Fujiko Fujio in the Post-war Period in Japan . And Has a variety of Plot genres which can be for anyone of any genre sexual orientation age or genre .

American, European , Asian, or Oceanic , comic inspired by the previous can be called "Graphic Novel" in order to not offend anyone . ( AND you Americans really get pissed of everything you need a reality check really REALLY or get laid I don't know but..srsly people complaining about a word and a Christmas tree on a public area it's just stupid. )


You know you do have a lot of point. That's probably the best rant and lesson I've ever heard out of this. Can I have permission to use your quote next time when there is another "non-Japanese manga vs real Japanese manga". A lot of time I've seen people making complain and bashing OEL/World manga just because it was not in Japan, and saying American don't make good story like Japan does. I don't see Japan complaining about other countries (probably not counting Korea and China) emulating manga art. Former Prime Minister Taro Aso promoted Global Manga and Kodansha held International Manga contest several time. So I find that debate pointless as the dub vs sub war (which I considered a hypocrisy).
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:45 am Reply with quote
mdo7 wrote:
So I find that debate pointless as the dub vs sub war (which I considered a hypocrisy).


No, hypocrisy is when you say one thing but then do something else that contradicts what you've said. For example: Reviving an old, dead topic (for the 6th or 7th time) just to decry how pointless of a discussion it is.
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