Forum - View topicFansubs, simulcasts, DVDs and you.
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Mahzes
 Posts: 18 |
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Following on from my last topic, this is another discussion I'm hoping will be useful for my dissertation;
Where do you personally stand in regard to fansubs, legal streaming and DVDs? Do you buy DVDs for any, some or all of the series you follow, if they’re available? Do you see fansubs as a replacement for DVDs? What are fansubs to you personally? From what I can tell so far, the main motivations for downloading fansubs is usually either a lack of willingness or ability to pay for legal alternatives, an actual lack of legal alternatives, or a massive distance between legal releases and current new episodes. Personally, it varies quite a bit with me. I think that for me, the main factors are availability of the show legally, how much I actually like the series, and how long the series is. Let me explain that in a bit more depth. I think in general, I won’t really purchase something that I haven’t already seen, for a start, which is perhaps somewhat ironic. I’ll watch something for free (online, legally or otherwise, or on TV), then make a purchase depending on a number of factors- most important perhaps being how much I like what I’ve seen. For example, I currently follow Naruto and One Piece (among other series, which I’ll get to later)- I buy Naruto legally (both DVDs and manga volumes), yet resort to fansubs and manga scans for One Piece. Of course, there’s no real legal alternative for One Piece in the UK anyway, what with no UK DVD releases and no simulcasts (and even when they were planned, they were region blocked to US-only as it is). Whilst the manga is available in the UK, it’s very far behind, and even though ViZ will shortly be catching up with the One Piece manga, I still probably won’t get it, nor admittedly would I be likely to buy that many One Piece DVDs were they to come out here. Whilst I do admittedly prefer Naruto to One Piece slightly, I personally feel as though it’s the sheer number of episodes and manga volumes that puts me off- Naruto is already a long, ongoing series, which is currently taking up a lot of my shelf space and requires a considerable amount financially to purchase in its entirety. I suppose I feel as though legally purchasing more than one long-running series is just a bit much, both in terms of physical space that the books and DVDs would occupy, as well as the costs incurred by buying so many episodes. As for other series, like I’ve said, I’ll usually watch them before making a purchase decision as it is. I suppose in that sense fansubs serve as a sort of ‘try before you buy’ for me. I kind of wish that more shows would go up on Crunchyroll or similar site, though- that way I could watch series for cheap or free without having to feel as though I’m stealing them. And at the same time, I’m still then able to make DVD purchases (provided they’re released here) for the ones that I especially like. And if not, then I can still watch them legally without them having to take up shelf (or disk) space. Oh, and another point I should probably make is that, despite buying the English Naruto manga and having an anime membership, I still read the manga scans online in order to read them as soon as possible, despite having a full intention to buy them once they’re available. I also admittedly sometimes download fansubs or rips of Naruto episodes I’ve seen legally via my paid Crunchyroll subscription, for the sake of being able to play them on TV. Of course, I still plan on buying the DVDs once they’re here, but still. I’m not sure how well I’ve put what I’m trying to convey here, but I’ll try and narrow things down again- what factors determine whether you opt for fansubs, simulcasts or DVD purchases? How much anime do you follow legally as opposed to not, and why? |
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DragonsRevenge
 Posts: 1150 |
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I would imagine someone working on their disseration (PhD, yes?) would be smart enough not to hit the submit button 3 times.
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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Yah, you're a funny guy. But we've all had the same problem with slow server loads leading to time-outs and reloads. And you'll make the same mistake, too, so don't be so superior. I'll clean up the mess. - abunai |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15596 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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I do watch online, but I don't like to download and instead I mostly stream, thus I can't just sudenly watch and I have an incentive to buy the DVDs. I buy what I can, though often with long series I am putting of buying for the moment, but I plan to get in the future, a bit of a problem with feeling like I need an entire colection. I do buy some DVDs without watching first, and that can be a bit fun. I think fansubs are good, and would have never got into many if I had not seen a fansub and some I have liked. There is a bunch of series that I also wish to get released, and I realy would have felt I have missed out. I am still trying to give my share to the anime industry for watching.
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Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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This time last year I'd preview series in their entirety before settling on a DVD purchase. Nowadays I use fansubs to a less extensive end; previewing only a small amount of a title so as ascertain its tone and aesthetics. Written opinions will play a role as well, but since they are subjective by essence, I'll be careful about the sources I read, and will in effect 'read what I wish to read'.
I suppose the same limited usage for previewing purposes would apply to the legal streaming titles I'd ideally like to see on my shelf- dramatic titles that seemingly conform to my genres of choice. If however a title is mostly comedic, featuring a minimalistic or lackadaisical plotline -the sort which lends itself best to idle as opposed to fully engaged viewing- then I'd be more inclined to watch it through ad-supported streaming without considering a later purchase. In other words, I'd watch the latter shows in the same way I'd watch television: to be entertained solely for the moment. Although I have yet to watch either sort of title through fully legal means, a situation I'm sure you'll be able to empathise with, this is my idealised attitude towards streaming options. Since my experience with them is inadequate, I remain undecided as to whether I'd be willing to actually pay a subscription for streaming services though, even in an idealised case. |
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Kimiko_0
 Posts: 1797 Location: Leiden, NL, EU |
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My main reason for watching fansubs is to 'try before I buy'. I want to know whether I like an anime before I spend money on it. To that end I don't mind downloading fansubs even when the anime in question have been licensed and are out on DVD. Even DVD rips are fine.
Illegal? Meh. I don't really feel guilty about it, because I do buy the anime I liked. The ones I watched but didn't like would have been misspent money if I'd bought them first. I think I would buy less if I had to worry about buying anime I might not like. Simulcasts and other streaming options, in their current state, aren't really an option for me. They're not available where I live, you can't easily skip back and forth or pause the video, quality is rather low, and the anime is only available through the web, for a limited time. Having the video files on my harddisk is much more convenient. The genres I like often either come in short 13 eps. half-seasons, or are unlikely to be licensed, which also makes a difference of course. I don't follow any of the never-ending shounen anime. The only thing that comes close so far is the Pretty Cure franchise with its 52 eps. long seasons, and only half of that has fansubs, and it'll probably never be licensed. |
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DuelLadyS
 Posts: 1705 Location: WA state |
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DVDs are my main source of anime- I like having a tangible object or as much of my media as I can... it's something I can show off, I can take to other's houses or on vacation, and- if I ever really need to- I can sell.
Personally, I don't watch legal streams, I simply don't have the time to with the massive anime backlog on DVD I currently have. I fully support it, though- I know many people who (due to limited funds or personal choice) prefer to preview before they can buy, and I adore that companies are providing them a safe, legal way to do so. I hope it becomes a common and permanent practice. Fansubs, I tend to be on the fence about- on the one hand, they take away vital revenue from the anime market by giving folks an easy way to 'steal' the title, rather than buy the DVD. On the other, they provided an opportunity to see many titles that are not being liscensed for legal release. I don't download fansubs- but only becuase I'm on a shared computer and don't wan't to eat up the memory/bandwith and ruin it for the other users. I hope to purchase my own system in the fairly near future, and I imagine one of the first things I'll do is download a few unliscensed shows I want to see (Alison and Lillia comes immedately to mind.) I do know I'd buy anything I download in full, it's simply my preferred way to keep my media. I also admit to using fansubs on Youtube to 'sample' anime before purchase on rare occasion- I do my best to work from reviews, synopisis, and trailers, but sometimes... you just gotta see it to be sure. I don't feel particularly gulity about this, since I typically only look at 2 episodes maximum (When they Cry being the only exception- I watched the first 4), and becuase only twice have I not decided to own the show (Mahoromatic I'd bought as a present, that fell through, and after viewing I opted to sell upon arrival. Lucky Star just didn't click with me... but somehow, I suspect I might buy it anyway once it hits the anime legends release.) I've opted to spend a fair amount of money on anime I wouldn't have without the preview, so (for me, at least) the fansubs have resulted in a profit for the anime companies. if legal streams and and do fully suceed, I think it'll help with the problem of the double-edged sword of fansubs, by reducing the appeal of fansubs for liscensed anime, while keeping it around for the unliscensed shows. That's about as ideal a situation as I think we can get. |
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Mahzes
Posts: 18 |
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Thanks for that. Yeah, I was getting page load issues when I posted the topic, unfortunately. For the record though, it's my Masters dissertation I'm working on (Video piracy, ethics and whatnot for an International Business degree). Thanks for the replies so far people, they're a dam site more helpful than what I'm getting from an identical topic on Crunchyroll, although I suppose that's to be expected giving the differing user bases. Still, I thought I'd post it around a few somewhat different places to get a nice mix of responses. I mean, even if half the replies on CR are retarded and unhelpful, if they're representitive of some of the target audience, then it'd be biased not to include them. |
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Hepzibah
 Posts: 67 Location: Colorado, USA |
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I do not watch fansubs, but I will watch streaming anime from a credible source (such as here on Anime News Network). I have an account at Crunchyroll, but I don't use it very often. I mostly just forget I have it. My main resources are TV and DVDs.
The main reason I'm not wild about fansubs is because I used to run an anime club in college. We had a rule stating specifically against using fansubs of licensed series, because it doesn't matter how you slice it, they are completely illegal. I gave a bit more leeway to series that had not yet been licensed, but we only had one person attempt to bring in his fansubs for us to watch. Once it was determined that the show he played for us had, indeed, been licensed, I got a lot stricter. We had a couple of folks try to bring in bootlegs, and they were also denied viewing in the club. Bootlegs annoy me worse than fansubs, frankly. Granted, both parties in question did not realize that they possessed bootlegs, so it was a learning experience for everyone. There are so many series that are already available legally, on both DVD and through online streaming, that it seems fairly pointless to me to try and go for fansubs. Not only is the quality generally much better, I have the ability to take a DVD anywhere I like, be it on my little laptop or to the TV. My mother has a Netflix account for the family, and that has been a fantastic way to receive anime that I had been curious about. Exploring the medium I have grown to love has been much more rewarding with these methods, versus the few fansubs I have actually seen. If other people enjoy fansubs for various reasons, that's good for them. I personally choose not to support them. |
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7995 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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I do all 3 in moderation, obviously with a preferences for legal alternatives like DVD and streaming. However, if I want to see a series and it's not licensed I will go ahead and download it.
I'm a collector, I buy lots of DVDs. If the series was good and gets licensed it will definitely end up on my shelves.
No, you can't replace DVD quality video and audio with crappy old fansubs in my opinion. To me, fansubs are either: A.) A place-holder copy of sorts until the series gets brought over, in which case you delete them for the superior DVDs. B.) A last resort for watching something you want to see if there are no official English translations. |
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DomFortress
 Posts: 751 Location: Richmond BC, Canada |
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guet
 Posts: 492 Location: Sparta |
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This is all just an honest report of my habits, in no way am I condemning others for their viewpoints on this subject.
Honestly, I'm not a fan of streaming. I dislike watching shows at a lower quality in a small window of my already smaller computer screen as opposed to my television. It also annoys me when I have a fast connection, but still have to wait several minutes to let the player buffer so I can watch an episode without it stopping. I do watch fansubs. I enjoy watching series as they come out in Japan. I also don't want to miss out on a great series because it hasn't been and probably wont be licensed. There are a few fansub groups that are so good at what they do that I've watched a series just because the group subbed the show. I like honorifics and some things left un-translated. Even though you can still catch the nuances through the audio, it kind of pulls me out of the show if whats in the subs doesn't at least somewhat match what's being said. Another factor that's a positive for fansubs is that between my gaming console and my media player, I can play 95% of the different formats used in fansubs on my television, most of the time in HD. DVDs are a mixed bag for me. I do buy a lot of them. Sometimes I buy them after already seeing the fansubs, knowing that some time in the future I'll want to do a re-watch. However, if I've seen a series on fansubs, just because the show is licensed at a later date I don't feel obligated to buy the show if I know I'll never want to watch it again. Morally wrong or not, that's just throwing money away that could be spent on better shows while still supporting the industry. Other times I'll blind buy movies or a series because I know from minor research or word of mouth that I'll enjoy them. If I'm only mildly curious about a series that's already out on DVD, or I can't find it for a decent price, I'll toss a volume or two into my queue over at Netflix to check it out. For the most part, if a show has been released and is avaliable, I'll go the legit DVD rout over fansubs every time. If it's not licensed or it's licensed, but the DVD's are not out yet, then I'll go for the fansubs. I'm not saying this is right legally or morally, it's just what I do. |
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Annf
Posts: 578 |
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I came to that conclusion a while back, too. I'm drowning in entertainment as it is already. I have a DVD backlog, a Blu-ray backlog, a video game backlog, a novel backlog, and a comics backlog, and there's a ton of legit free or cheap content on the web and more added daily. At this point it seems silly to go out of my way to add illegal copies to the pile. |
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Mushi-Man
 Posts: 1537 Location: KCMO |
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I think fansubs are ok to use responsibly. Basically I use them as a preview device to see if the series is worth my time and money. If I like it after seeing the fansubs I'll be happy to buy it if there is a legal copy available. Legal Streaming is a great thing that's going to be the next step in the anime industry. I always use the legal streaming option if one is available. This option gives the fans the ability to preview a series (as if we were watching it on tv) and decide if it's worth buying. This will not only make fansubs less abundant, but also increase revenue down the road.
I try to get around to buying dvds of all the anime that I enjoyed. As long as the price is right I get the dvd. The only draw back is that not all of the anime that I enjoy are available in the U.S. But I take this as a matter which can be solved with patience. I'm sure somewhere down the line said anime will be released in some form or another. Take Captain Harlock for example, I would like to own the dvd, but there are no dvds for that series in America. But on the up side it is on Crunchyroll for me to enjoy.
No! I know people who do and it annoys me. I don't see how you could prefer a fansub over a quality legal dvd. I just find dvds to be more reliable, more convenient, and more rewarding. I find to most (not all) people who think that fansubs can be a replacement for dvds are new fans or just watch Naruto and Bleach. |
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LordRedhand
 Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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Personally I'm against fansubs and for legal streaming and DVDs. Thi stems mainly from something that I find simple if you want others to respect your work you have to respect the work of others first. Fansubbers don't do this and have been sliding more into dishonest reasons as to why they do what they do, s in theory legal streaming should be what they want for a "see it before I buy it," mentality, yet those who say that still turn to illegal distribution even though the industry id moving to give them what they claim to "want". Add in the fact that for some they find it okay to lie, cheat and break the rules a little (as found in discussions on this site) are concerning as one must ask "Okay so if your willing to say that it's okay for you to lie and cheat then it's okay for others to lie and cheat you to, right?" and "If you are willing to trust someone who is willing to break or "bend" a rule, what other rules is that person have no problem bending or breaking?" To put in another way how many people like cheaters when it comes to playing a game, whether it be poker or board games, and would you trust them in positions of authority. AS some of this it's okay to break a few rules leads to things like what's happening in New Jersey, and if we accept lying and cheating that enables the Bernie Madoffs pf the world. So I would rather work within the system, it has the tools needed to get what most of the fansubbers want, they just don't want to put in the time and effort (and risk) to make it a reality, they leave that to other entities and still try to undermine even those efforts.
Well I'm a completest by nature so when I pick up a series I tend to pick up all of it. Because of that tendency I'm "picky" about which series I'll put my time and money in. As to legal streaming I use it as a final tool in determining whether to get a series or not (for the record with the exception of one series which I knew I was going to pick up on DVD the answer was no to the others.) But I've only streamed a few shows, with time commitments to work and home, that also adds to the determination of what show I watch (as well as juggling anime with my other hobbies, there is just some things that come out in them that I want like Geist: The Sin-Eaters World of Darkness book for example.)
No mainly because we know that the DVD release often comes with cleaned up animation and extra scenes not in the TV broadcast. AS to the other question see answer to first question above. |
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