Forum - View topicNEWS: 1-Week Update on Handley Case over 'Obscene' Manga
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Daemonblue
 Posts: 701 |
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It's not that easy to convince that many strangers that drawings on a piece of paper aren't child porn, especially since this is the US, where everything foreign funds terrorism, cartoons and comics are for kids, and it's easier to shoot someone than talk to them. God I love stereotypes...BTW...I live on the bible belt....so yea...joy... |
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teh*darkness
 Posts: 901 |
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Um, go read again... the "maximum sentence" is 15 years. He hasn't been sentenced yet. He could get one year, for all we know. Stop jumping the gun, people. x.x |
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CorneredAngel
 Posts: 854 Location: New York, NY |
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Actually, just the opposite - since there was no written decision handed down by the judge, for the purposes of any future similar case, the outcome of this one doesn't exist. And again, to emphasize, the MOST he can be sentenced to is 15 years in prison - but it is equally likely that may not have to serve any actual prison time at all. |
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daxomni
 Posts: 2650 Location: Somewhere else. |
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I was about to sink my teeth into this discussion but once again I got sidetracked by the lack of proofreading.
Why did you add a superfluous "The" to this sentence?
Costed? What sort of word is that? It's certainly not American English. You know, attention to detail can be really important for news writers. It lets us know that you take your work seriously. When I see sloppy writing it makes me wonder what else slipped by the author unnoticed. Is there an opening for editor? 
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Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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Yes, and we find it absurd that he could (keyword bolded) get 15 years for drawings. It's ridiculous.
EDIT: Also, in Houston, "costed" is used so much that I didn't even bat an eye when I read it, lol. |
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Kit-Tsukasa
Posts: 930 |
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This is the most ridiculous case I've heard in my life. Seriously, he had no possession of actual child porn and last I checked manga/hentai is not included in the Protect Act of 2003 (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Digital and virtual images are two different things, but clearly outside Japan, no one sees it as such (cases like in Taiwan, UK, Philippines). I mean I can understand other countries, but with the US supposedly the "free country" what ever happened to that? Freedom of speech/expression really no longer exists with these laws continuously piling on top without getting rid of freedom of speech explicitly.
I've never heard of Machino (then again I've never heard of many hentai artists anyways), but still what someone does in his own home is his own privacy. I agree that the US should check foreign mail to prevent stuff like illegal weapons and drugs from getting imported and such, but other than that I think that's off limits as it goes against invasion of privacy. This guy has technically done nothing wrong and should not be sentenced period. He should only be sentenced if he had legitimate child porn and such, which based on this does not seem like he did. |
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Sariachan
 Posts: 1507 Location: Italy |
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This is ridiculous. -__-'
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MokonaModoki
 Posts: 437 Location: Austin, Texas |
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For those who are interested, the base offense level under USSG 2G.2 is 18, the prosecution asked for an acceptance adjustment of 3 points down, and 2G2.2 includes an additional 2 points down if the offense wasn't for financial gain.
At level 13 the sentence for a minimal criminal history is 12-18 months (up to 33-41 months for a really high criminal history). So he could easily get a 1 to 1 1/2 year sentence. If the judge recognizes the stupidity of the case (and sentencing as actual child pornography) then he could depart from the guidelines down to the 3 years of supervised release (probation) already stipulated in the agreement. On the other hand, the plea leaves open the possibility for any upward adjustments under 2G.2 which could possibly include: Material that portrays sadistic or masochistic conduct or other depictions of violence - plus 2. Depicts a minor under 12 - plus 2. Use of a computer - plus 2. 10 - 150 images - plus 2. 150 - 300 images - plus 3. 300 - 600 images - plus 4. If he did manage to pick up 10 points from these upward adjustments (which there is no way to predict, it will be established in his pre-sentence report) then his offense level would shoot back up to 23. At that level the lowest sentencing range is 46-67 months (92-115 at the high criminal history end of the table). Basically, part 7. b. of the plea agreement leaves him really exposed, but since each of those enhancements are for sentencing for actual child pornography crimes there would be a lot of room for appeal if he got screwzled. (The second count he pled guilty to comes down to about 0-6 months and is unlikely to matter at all.) EDIT: For everyone saying he could get 15 years, that number has been batted around for a while, but the maximum sentence for this offense is actually 10 years. Any combination of possibilities that separated out the charges to get to 15 years wouldn't actually happen under the sentencing guidelines. Last edited by MokonaModoki on Thu May 28, 2009 4:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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INS Division 6
 Subscriber Posts: 91 Location: Philadelphia Area, PA |
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I feel bad that the goverment can do this. But do any of the older anime fans remember Zap comics?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zap_comics It's this really strange American underground comic. My father showed me an issue from 1969. It had all this sexual content in it, including a woman having intercourse with a frog, and a whole family engaging in Incest, and the children were minors. I told my dad today to watch out or the Government will be kicking down his door. I just thought I'd throw this example out there, so It's not just the Japanese who are making these kinds of comics. |
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Daemonblue
Posts: 701 |
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@Mokona
There's one small thing you're glancing over, which is oddly enough in what you said. Those are the sentencing guidelines, as in they don't have to follow them. The sentencing is at the judge's discretion, the guidelines are just there for the judges that choose to follow them. Also, everyone is saying 15 years because he could get 10 years for one of the offences plus an additional 5 years for the other, and as stated above, if the judge so willingly chooses to ignore the guidelines then he could get the full 15 and couldn't do anything about it since he plead guilty, and part of the plea is that he can't appeal no matter how much time he gets, since he acknowledges his guilt. Edit: Also, the thing that irked me the most in the exact wording on the pdf that I had mentioned earlier...
So my question is how is admitting that he did nothing to any real person is in the public interest? Last edited by Daemonblue on Thu May 28, 2009 4:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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samuelp
Industry Insider
Posts: 2243 Location: San Antonio, USA |
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Man, Machino?
There's a really really good defense for that: Henmaru Machino's art has been featured in major US art museums, ON TOUR around the country as part of the very well reviewed "superflat" exhibition a few years back. Everywhere from MOMA to MOCA... And a lot of the images in those exhibitions were sexualized images of children. This guy really should have gone to trial with that. Machino is one of the most "artsy" of all the extreme hentai artists, his work borders on parody of the genre and is more in the vein of Crumb than your normal porn book. |
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pmnatty
Posts: 1 |
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The charges under the PROTECT act were dismissed, he pleaded guilty to possessing "obscene" images, and those laws are older and more well-established.
I would agree, and unfortunately this is nothing new. I wish it was only as old as the PROTECT act, or some equally recent legislation that hadn't yet been challenged. But it goes back at least to the 1970s and the infamous "Miller test" which demands that an "average person" apply "community standards" and try to decide if something is icky enough to throw you in jail for writing/saying/drawing/buying it. As the indictment in this case pointed out, the current view is that the First Amendment does not protect obscene speech. And "obscene" means whatever someone decides it means. Personally, I find the law obscene, but I doubt they'll jail the people that wrote it.
I was thinking the same thing, but we still don't know what other manga Handley had. Maybe Machino could be said to have "artistic merit" (assuming you can get a respectably snooty art critic to say so, as opposed to us plebs) but if there's even one image in one other book that isn't artistic enough, then off to jail he goes anyway. And with a worse sentence than the plea. Last edited by pmnatty on Thu May 28, 2009 6:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Gilles Poitras
Posts: 478 Location: Oakland California |
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One thing to remember in such a case the term "child' can refer to any drawing of a character under 18.
This could apply to Evangelion dojinshi, Gunsmith Cats (May is 17), as well as several Robert Crumb comics and other US 'underground' comics. |
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MokonaModoki
Posts: 437 Location: Austin, Texas |
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@ Daemonblue
Departures may happen, but upward departures are rare. They're far too easy to defeat on appeal without a rational basis. The only specific provision for upward departure for 2G.2, for example, applies to the involvement of more than 10 minors. The scenario you describe of assigning consecutive sentence for counts arising from the same offense would rise to the level of being illegal, since the two charges fall specifically in the category which are excluded from consecutive sentencing and effectively *must* be grouped. |
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jenthehen
 Posts: 835 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio |
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Wow ... now that I've seen some of this artist's work ... I'm very disappointed with this whole thing. Maybe it's just the batch I found, but none of these girls are underage and I've seen way WAY worse before. Some of it is barely even pornographic, but just ... unusual.
I don't get it 
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As much as everyone wants to say that with this plea bargain he'd save more money in the long time, and can't help but think that if he had let this case go to trial and he had gotten a good dedicated lawyer, there's no way he'd have deemed guilty. 
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