Forum - View topic"Americanizing" Anime
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Septeus7
Posts: 88 |
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*Rant Alert* The following is a rant meaning at no time will the argument actually be based on facts meaning its just my bloody opinion.
Americanizing Defined: Recently, I watched the English dub of Slayers and it got me thinking about the possess of translating and dubbing anime for an American audience. Purists, which I am not despite what some people think after my comments about Funimation cringe, at the notion of "Americanizing" Anime. Examples of Americanizing Anime would be changing the original names and "changing the script." The Dialogue Problem: I disagree and I think that "Americanizing" can be good if the final product is better. I present the Slayers dub as a example. I think the Japanese version was better but not because primary because of the actors but the script. The script seemed to be a vey literal "translation" of the Japanese and the resulting dialogue in English was very simple/plain and as a result the English version was not as fun as it could have been. Literalism and Original Meaning: The problem I see is in the notion of translating scripts. You can't really make a literal translation of the original dialogue and actually have a well written script in the new language. The differences between the Japanese and English and just too great for even the notion of literal translation to be valid. Even some purists recognize this but then they claim what should be preserved is the original meaning and the original meaning should never be changed. But even this problematic because sometimes the meaning in Japanese has no meaning in American English because in some cases the Japanese meaning is rooted in Japanese culture and there is no such frame of reference in American culture. The Perpetual Problem of Humor. Much of humor said to be cultural so some would say that to try is to fail when comes to bringing the comedic elements of the Japanese to an English dub. However, this loss of the Comic sense of the anime is something that I think greatly effects the preception of the anime and is too valuable to simply be ignored thus we have lose-lose situation for the US market or any foreign market for that matter. Although this problem will always persist to some degree, I think that the problem is not so bad as many make it out to be becuase much of the problem as I see come for the flawed notion of fidelity to original meaning that I discussed above. To important things come into play when verbal Comedy this involved: 1. Choice of words and 2. timing. Comedy in Translation: If you have a prior commitment to "translating" or strict original meaning your choice is greatly limited and as a result seem odd and mismatched to the context of the story. But if the writer is free to take great liberties with the dialogue as long of the essense of the story is preserved this first problem is lessened. The second problem of timing is harded because timing is a characteristic of language and grammer which cannot be the perserved when changing languages. However, if the writer doesn't feel that he is limited to the original mean but that preserving the emotion of the moment is of greater interest he can introduce orginal but valuable humor with an American/foreign flavor that actually preserves the emotion better than following the orginal script. But at this point purist whiners will complain that the story was changed. Taking Liberties: Sometime taking liberties with the script and even the story can be problematic if taken to the point where the essense of the stories and characters are damaged and there is a loss of the emotional character of story. For example if the location is clearly in Japan th writer shouldn't be a idiot and change the names the to American ones. Clearly trying to Americanize Samurai anime would be moronic. However, why not cange some the names in FMA? Whats wrong with changing Winry to Windy? *Pretense of reasoned arguement ends here: Rage Rant begins* In closing let me say that I all I want is a better product at the end of the day and that better writing is necessary for that end. If better writing results in changing the an insignificant part of story so be it. Why is that so many English dubs have terrible dialogue? I mean its not the American Studio actually had to come up with a dialogue out of wholecloth like the Japanese writer did. Is putting some thought into the lines to hard for American Studios? Are afraid of developing something? Say actual writting skills? So what if it wasn't better was in the original Japanese? Boring and sappy is made better be the fact that the Japanese version had as well. Do you really want all of the dubbed anime to be written like Crest of the Stars? Demand better writting especially better dialogue. On to the Slayers dub. Some of the voice actors need to deliver their lines with more enthusiasm yes I know the orignal character (Gourry's Girlfriend) was shy but she's not a God damn zombie. Also, why doesn't Gourry sound like he's just awakened for a comma? Why do Anime fans put up with stuff like this? Its not like Slayers is a really delicate piece of Art that changing a few lines of dialogue with destroy its eternal meaning. And for you Purists out there: Kiss my dub watching Ass its not like you guys actually contribute anything. At least I'll actually be able to see subtitles when I'm forty unlike you sub-title worshipping pirates. [stupidity deleted, the rest is fine -mod] |
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Emerje
 Posts: 7390 Location: Maine |
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Why change it? It's not as if they intended it to be Windy. If it was a mater of bad translations wouldn't they be calling her Winly? I don't mind name changes, especially on the corporate level, but I don't understand why fans whould actually ask for them... But that's aside the point. I just have one question, what dub were you watching? Was it an ADV translation or Software Sculptors/CMP? Emerje |
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Nagisa
Moderator
 Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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Long-winded rants do not work with horrific, glaring grammatical errors. Jesus that was hard to read.
While I do agree that purists take things a bit too far (at least...I THINK that was your point), this profane little outcry was unnecessary and redundant.
Very off-topic, and I can see this statement coming back to ruin this thread in the near future. If you want to childishly back up people like this, do so in appropriate threads. |
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Haiseikoh 1973
 Posts: 1590 Location: Waiting for the Japanese 1000 Gunieas. |
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This is abit confusing and seems to jump sides:
Okay, you advocate "Better Dubs" in the interests of Accuracy, yet you slap the faces of those who want Subtitles and fair Accuracy? You can't deny one to satisfy another. |
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jsyxx
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Actually, the Slayers dub is one of my favorites. I wouldn't say its Americanized at all. Its pretty dead on accurate, except in a few instantces where they may take a "b*tch" out.
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Septeus7
Posts: 88 |
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The question is about accuracy of essence and emotion not word for word, name for name literalism. I slap the faces of who want subtitles because they think changing the script to fit the English language and American audiences does irreparable damage to the product; it does not. Sometimes the emotion of the characters and the events in story say more than words being spoken.
Talk about missing the point. I thought it was a horrible dub because its so dead on accurate. The dialogue is plain and boring making the dub seem miscasted with underwhelming voice acting. If the writer had bothered to change the literal script and yet retain most of the meaning while adding most interested clever dialogue it would have alot of fun like the Japanese version on subtitles. However, the writer/translator was feeling lazy and so its not as fun and that's about it. Why not Americanize an Anime like Slayers? Its not the Japanese Culture plays an important role in the story if anything Slayers seems to based on western medival fantasy so Americanizing/Westernizing would actually help not hurt. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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OMG HOW CULD U SAY THAT ABOUT EVA ITS SO DEEP OMG WTF WRONG WIT U LOLOLOMGWTFAFKBBSASAP      
Seriously, when did I get some sort of repuation for being HOLY DEFENDER OF EVANGELION? Tear it apart all you like, I couldn't care less. Last edited by Zac on Mon May 31, 2004 8:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Godaistudios
Posts: 2075 Location: Albuquerque, NM (the land of entrapment) |
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Personally, I found the Japanese to be no less boring... the script (in my opinion) didn't play as much a role in either version, but relied more on concept and story to drive the series. As such, trying to "Americanize" it won't do much for it at all. Or do we want to have another Initial D on our hands?
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Kisaki
Posts: 49 |
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I think "Americanizing" is the worst thing that ever happened to anime! Just look what 4kids entertainment is doing to Tokyo Mew Mew! Those idiots changed it to hollywood, and curious to see what they'll do with the scene where they're fighting aliens on top of Tokyo tower and at Tokyo dome. Those things are definitely NOT in hollywood. And as if that isn't bad enough, they changed all the characters' names, and they're putting it on the foxbox of all things! I've read the manga, and this is NOT foxbox material. Someone would have to be at least 9 to even begin to understand the romance in this series, and yet they put it on the stinkin' foxbox!
And then there are companies like dic. People still hate them for what they did to Sailor Moon, and yet they still had the guts to change Saint Seiya to Knights of the Zodiac. Someday, I'll start my own anime company, and won't let anime get butchered at all... or that will just be added to my list of overzealous dreams. |
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Godaistudios
Posts: 2075 Location: Albuquerque, NM (the land of entrapment) |
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Yeah... that's a pipe dream...
After all, even if you could successfully start a company, there is absolutely no way you could license every series out there. As such, there is always the possibility of a "butchering." |
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Nagisa
Moderator
Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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Dic doesn't exist anymore. Knights of the Zodiac came about around the same time as Sailor Moon, when the anime fan community was still too small to do anything about it. ADV have Saint Seiya and are releasing the uncut, subbed version (though really, I fail to see what all the hype is about).
Um...really the only company that "butchers" anime in this day & age is 4Kids. And they only nab the children's shows that have almost no marketability to the type of fans who'd want uncut, subtitled releases (Mew Mew being an exception, but...). ADV, Bandai, Geneon, FUNimation, Central Park Media, Viz, etc. all put out quality releases with little to no editing of content. Last edited by Nagisa on Tue Jun 01, 2004 1:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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lianncoop
Past ANN Contributor
 Posts: 1705 Location: Indiana |
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Wow, just wow. Well, Hollywood Mew Mew was definitely not the best decision they could've made, but who knows, maybe they'll change the name back? As far as having to be at least 9 to "understand the romance," stuff. Okay. So...Ichigo likes Masaya and he likes her back. Explain to me how that's too deep for a nine-year-old.
You know, I think it was brave of them to have even licensed such a terrible show. Last edited by lianncoop on Tue Jun 01, 2004 6:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Lone Wolf and Cub
 Posts: 301 Location: tumbleweed, South Dakota |
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Americanzing anime being good or bad is not a converation that any of us will ever win. Let's face it, there will always be purists, and there will always be those who like dubs. I personally tend to like most dubs just because i do not like reading subtitles, but if the dub is really bad, ala Love Hina, then I will stick to the original Japanese version with subtitles. To say one is better than the other is not going to get you anywhere just because of the fact that people will always be people, and as such they will both agree and disagree with you all the time.
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Emerje
Posts: 7390 Location: Maine |
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Er, no, DIC is still alive and well. Also, they're version of Knights of the Zodiac (and I say "their" because that's the international title, only ADV and Japan calls it Saint Saiya) was done about the same time as ADV's version, 2003. Not Justifying or complaining about anything, just pointing out stuff... Emerje |
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Nagisa
Moderator
Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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Huh...I thought I read on here that they were sold off to Disney or some other large company and effectively scuttled.
And I could have sworn the dub was much, much older. Ah well. 
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