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REVIEW: Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion DVD Part 3


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Veers



Joined: 31 Oct 2008
Posts: 1197
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:39 am Reply with quote
Avarice_WP wrote:
Obviously to watch any cartoon and enjoy it there is a suspension of disbelief involved. But there is only so much a person can forgive before the show goes from "it's supposed to be that way" to it finally just plain bad. To answer your remark directly- I completely disagree that Geass has any realism by any definition of the word.

“When you hear a true story, there is part of you that responds to it regardless of art, regardless of evidence. Let it be clumsily told and you will still love the tale, if you love truth. Let it be the most obvious fabrication and you will still believe whatever truth is in it, because you cannot deny truth no matter how shabbily it is dressed.”

(Cookie if you know where this quote is from.)

And I'm not saying CG is a true and realistic story, just that I think you are far off base by saying there is no realism to be found. There isn't a lot, but it's there.
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Top Gun



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 4745
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:22 pm Reply with quote
BleuVII wrote:
This review encompasses all of my feelings of the show. After each episode, I was always like, "That was so stupid! When does the next one come out?" It's a show where each individual piece seems doomed to fail, but when they all come together, it somehow strangely works.

My feelings exactly. I've heard the show as a whole, and particularly R2, described as a "train wreck," and I'll completely agree from a plotting standpoint, but that very quality is exactly what makes it so horrifically fun to watch. The plot twists and situations get more and more ridiculous, the characters are thrown into increasingly-farfetched situations, every single crazy event you could think of--and then a few you can't--winds up taking place at the drop of a hat, and all with a heavy dose of Goro Taniguchi's infamous flamenco horns blasting over top of it. There's just about no coherence or sensibility to be found, but the characters are pretty, the mechs are blowing up, and the story keeps racing along at breakneck speed. It's the very best type of mindless entertainment; if you can manage to switch your brain off and enjoy it for what it is, it has a whole ton of entertainment to deliver.
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x1onexwo1fx



Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 31
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:43 pm Reply with quote
For the most part, the series was horribly engrossing. I loved the character designs (Kallen in particular...haha) and how complex every character was. I loved how every episode (especially in R2) ended on a massive cliffhanger. I loved how the plot twists just seemed to come out of nowhere. But the one thing that probably mostly justified the series' place in my top three is the ending of R2.[/i]
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nightjuan



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 1473
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:14 pm Reply with quote
I really have to disagree about the series being as "mindless" as Top Gun describes it, especially because I didn't find it that difficult to take it both seriously and otherwise. Not just one or the other, as if they were mutually exclusive, since the circumstances vary depending on the situation at hand.

While it's definitely true that a significant number plot twists are either ridiculous or extremely poorly executed, especially during the second season, others are actually average, adequate or even occasionally very good.

To put it in other words...the way the specific details of the plot are executed often makes less sense than it should, objectively, but the big picture also makes more sense than many people give it credit for, inside rather than outside of its context. I think there is in fact a minimum level coherence, even foreshadowing, that is often overlooked.

I don't think I'd be able to appreciate that if the series was truly "mindless" entertainment and absolutely nothing else.

Of course, I suppose it's easier for people to focus on the negatives than on anything else, but I didn't find myself cynically laughing all the time without the ability to take things seriously at least once in a while. I laugh at certain things, but not at others.

The review we're all responding to is mostly concerned with the first season, which I personally rate as a B+, but for the sake of being comprehensive, R2 gets a C+. Disappointing but somewhat acceptable in the grand scheme of things. The average for the whole show would be either B or B-, depending on how you calculate it.

Compared to shows which have left me absolutely angry and with a desire to get my money back, so to speak, Code Geass turned out better than I was expecting to, even if some of its potential was wasted. I don't consider it a "train wreck" because that term has been beaten to death and used in the most juvenile ways.


Last edited by nightjuan on Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:20 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Panda Man



Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 257
Location: North Carolina
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:18 pm Reply with quote
x1onexwo1fx wrote:
For the most part, the series was horribly engrossing. I loved the character designs (Kallen in particular...haha) and how complex every character was. I loved how every episode (especially in R2) ended on a massive cliffhanger. I loved how the plot twists just seemed to come out of nowhere. But the one thing that probably mostly justified the series' place in my top three is the ending of R2.[/i]

I love Code Geass for the exact same reason. When I was watching it, every time an episode ended, I would start cussing and getting pissed that I had to wait till next week for more. It was pretty stressful at times since you didn't know if a character you liked would live or not.

At one point, I was so in thought about what I would do in the situation that I missed part of the episode and had to re-watch.
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Josh7289



Joined: 27 Aug 2005
Posts: 1252
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:27 pm Reply with quote
Ugh, freaking Code Geass. I'm watching R2 on Adult Swim now (well, until they put new episodes on hold), and I honestly have no idea what's even going on anymore. The pacing and is such an utter mess and the story has become so convoluted that I just can't care about it anymore.

The rampant unfettered sexual objectification of every single female character killed the series for me, too.

EDIT: This is basically what I think of the show, too:
Polly E. wrote:
I guess I never really could decide whether Code Geass wanted me to take it seriously or not. I think the first season was fairly consistent, and though a bit ridiculous at times, still fairly enjoyable. I'm all about being entertained after all.

R2 got to the point where I was simply watching to see just how stupid things could possibly get. It felt to me like they literally threw everything out the window with battles that turned into Shounen power-level fests (rather than strategic) and had characters doing things completely out of character simply because it was convenient for the scene and direction of the story. The ending was great and there's not much I'd change about that.

Except for the part about the ending, since I haven't seen it yet.
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nightjuan



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 1473
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:56 pm Reply with quote
Personally, I'd argue there are more characters who are useless or left in the background than those who are truly "out of character" even if their actions go against audience expectations and preferences...but R2's poor pacing is a big issue I can honestly agree with.

R2 starts out relatively slowly, then it speeds up towards the middle, then it gets a little slow again, then it gets much faster again, and then it slows down from a certain point on towards the end. I found that annoying but not impossible to withstand, though I can also understand if it turns people off...there's no way around that.

Most of the battles did become worse and generally shorter, which was a bad idea, but as for shounen power levels...nah, I think it just followed the generic "shiny upgraded toys defeat older models" formula that modern Gundam resorts to every so often, just dedicating less minutes to it.

The details of the plot are needlessly convoluted, yes, but I think the general framework or outline works, more or less.

As for objectification, whether it's sexual or otherwise (I could rant on and on about "moe" as that is another way to objectify fictional women and includes implicit rather than explicit sexuality to boot), it probably doesn't affect me that much by now after having seen worse.

There's Godannar, for instance, which is still pretty fun in spite of the fact it screams fanservice to the point of making Code Geass (or Gurren Lagann, for that matter) look comparatively tame.
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rainbowcourage



Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 1216
Location: what is commonly known as "hell week"
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:14 pm Reply with quote
Carl Kimlinger wrote:
The series has always flirted with camp, particularly where Zero is concerned, but after Euphy's ill-fated peace talks, the show seems to dispense with foreplay altogether goes straight into having rowdy sex.

But, even at its most hysterical, and no matter how arduously it courts it, you can't honestly call the series camp. It's simply too good for that.


Hee hee, I really enjoyed that extended metaphor.

I pretty much agree, Code Geass is one of my all-time favorites. You just kind of have to fling caution to the wind, throw realism out the window, and just soak it in, Gurren Lagann style. Usually I'm critical about that sort of thing, but I do make exceptions Laughing
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:49 pm Reply with quote
Top Gun wrote:
BleuVII wrote:
This review encompasses all of my feelings of the show. After each episode, I was always like, "That was so stupid! When does the next one come out?" It's a show where each individual piece seems doomed to fail, but when they all come together, it somehow strangely works.

My feelings exactly. I've heard the show as a whole, and particularly R2, described as a "train wreck," and I'll completely agree from a plotting standpoint, but that very quality is exactly what makes it so horrifically fun to watch. The plot twists and situations get more and more ridiculous, the characters are thrown into increasingly-farfetched situations, every single crazy event you could think of--and then a few you can't--winds up taking place at the drop of a hat, and all with a heavy dose of Goro Taniguchi's infamous flamenco horns blasting over top of it. There's just about no coherence or sensibility to be found, but the characters are pretty, the mechs are blowing up, and the story keeps racing along at breakneck speed. It's the very best type of mindless entertainment; if you can manage to switch your brain off and enjoy it for what it is, it has a whole ton of entertainment to deliver.


My biggest problem is that with the first season it was firmly in Taniguchi and Okouchi are making a serious anime.

With R2 it kind of looks like they didn't know if they where making a serious anime or a gag anime.

I mean R2 is firmly in the So Bad Its Good pantheon along with the Adam West Batman, and Jean Claude Van Damm Street Fighter movie. I keep on expecting Lelouch to say "You still refuse to ACCEPT...my godhood? KEEP your own God! In fact, this might be a good time to PRAY to Him! For I beheld Satan as he FELL FROM HEAVEN!...LIKE LIGHTNING!!!"
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nightjuan



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 1473
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:07 am Reply with quote
Charred Knight wrote:

My biggest problem is that with the first season it was firmly in Taniguchi and Okouchi are making a serious anime.

With masked cats being chased around, women jumping out of windows, other women doing something else, Zero's ridiculous poses and over the top speeches, Pizza Hut sponsorship, school episodes, playful coincidences in dramatic moments and more?

I could say that the first season was more serious and more consistent, sure, but I think you're too..."absolute" with your statements, for lack of a better way to describe it. There was already more than enough material for gags and camp long before R2 ever came around. If you think that overwhelmed the show later, which I can only partially agree with, then fine, but don't pretend that wasn't there.

Lelouch wasn't any less likely to go into extravagant egocentric theatrics during the first season...nevermind that he never thought of himself as "God" either, but debating that would be missing the point, I know.

Also....don't insult the Adam West Batman by comparing it to Street Fighter The Movie. Razz
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:22 am Reply with quote
nightjuan wrote:
Charred Knight wrote:

My biggest problem is that with the first season it was firmly in Taniguchi and Okouchi are making a serious anime.

With masked cats being chased around, women jumping out of windows, other women doing something else, Zero's ridiculous poses and over the top speeches, Pizza Hut sponsorship, school episodes, playful coincidences in dramatic moments and more?

I could say that the first season was more serious and more consistent, sure, but I think you're too..."absolute" with your statements, for lack of a better way to describe it. There was already more than enough material for gags and camp long before R2 ever came around. If you think that overwhelmed the show later, which I can only partially agree with, then fine, but don't pretend that wasn't there.

Lelouch wasn't any less likely to go into extravagant egocentric theatrics during the first season...nevermind that he never thought of himself as "God" either, but debating that would be missing the point, I know.

Also....don't insult the Adam West Batman by comparing it to Street Fighter The Movie. Razz


Actually Code Geass R2 was the most consistent one, I can almost see this happening

Okouchi: Here's the new scripts
Taniguchi: Wait this scene between Charles, and Lelouch is serious
Okouchi: Its supposed to be
Taniguchi: well lets change this dramatic moment so that Charles is making a silly face to make it more comedic
Okouchi: Does everything have to have something comedic going on
Taniguchi: Yes, everytime something dramatic is going on we give someone a silly face to make it comedic. I told you this already.

With the original Code Geass, the theatrics where part of the Zero persona, with R2 that's like half the cast in default.

Also The Street Fighter movie is a great comedy, Raul Julia as Bison, Zangief's every line, that ho yay scene between Balrog and E. Honda.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzl3uvkkmmo

That was beautiful
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nightjuan



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 1473
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:07 am Reply with quote
Charred Knight wrote:

Actually Code Geass R2 was the most consistent one, I can almost see this happening

Okouchi: Here's the new scripts
Taniguchi: Wait this scene between Charles, and Lelouch is serious
Okouchi: Its supposed to be
Taniguchi: well lets change this dramatic moment so that Charles is making a silly face to make it more comedic
Okouchi: Does everything have to have something comedic going on
Taniguchi: Yes, everytime something dramatic is going on we give someone a silly face to make it comedic. I told you this already.

That dialogue made me chuckle, but I can only shrug...while I did find some of the more outrageous faces or costumes to be out of place or admittedly funny, they only rarely made me miss the point of a scene or made it dramatically useless.

While I was watching, that is. It's much, much easier to laugh at something when someone else is pointing out how "funny" it's supposed to be on a forum, with motivators and the like.

Makes you wonder how funny something really is when it's not out of context...but I guess that also depends on your sense of humor, how much you're willing to tolerate or how much you're into the show and the characters in the first place. Maybe all of the above.

Then again, I'm the sort of guy who can take the ending of Death Note entirely seriously even with all the strange contortions and spoiler["swimming lessons"] involved. The same thing goes for Higurashi and its distorted facial expressions that give Code Geass way more than a run for its money in that category, since the show gets that much darker while also having lots of comedic relief.

Oh, I almost feel like replying to that, but I'm afraid this would go too off-topic too soon if I did. Wink
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:05 am Reply with quote
nightjuan wrote:
Charred Knight wrote:

Actually Code Geass R2 was the most consistent one, I can almost see this happening

Okouchi: Here's the new scripts
Taniguchi: Wait this scene between Charles, and Lelouch is serious
Okouchi: Its supposed to be
Taniguchi: well lets change this dramatic moment so that Charles is making a silly face to make it more comedic
Okouchi: Does everything have to have something comedic going on
Taniguchi: Yes, everytime something dramatic is going on we give someone a silly face to make it comedic. I told you this already.

That dialogue made me chuckle, but I can only shrug...while I did find some of the more outrageous faces or costumes to be out of place or admittedly funny, they only rarely made me miss the point of a scene or made it dramatically useless.

While I was watching, that is. It's much, much easier to laugh at something when someone else is pointing out how "funny" it's supposed to be on a forum, with motivators and the like.

Makes you wonder how funny something really is when it's not out of context...but I guess that also depends on your sense of humor, how much you're willing to tolerate or how much you're into the show and the characters in the first place. Maybe all of the above.

Then again, I'm the sort of guy who can take the ending of Death Note entirely seriously even with all the strange contortions and spoiler["swimming lessons"] involved. The same thing goes for Higurashi and its distorted facial expressions that give Code Geass way more than a run for its money in that category, since the show gets that much darker while also having lots of comedic relief.

Oh, I almost feel like replying to that, but I'm afraid this would go too off-topic too soon if I did. Wink


At the end of the day I can't help but feel that while Okouchi was trying to make a serious work, Taniguchi was trying to piss off Sunrise for changing the time slot by purposely making R2 as crappy as possible, by having characters make inappropiate faces,, and basically had the actors act like they where making a Flash Gordon movie.

As a serious piece of work R2 is horrible, as a comedic anime its actually pretty good.

Also I will never watch Higurashi because the faces are so badly drawn that I know that I wouldn't be able to pay attention due to laughing so hard.
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nightjuan



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 1473
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:23 am Reply with quote
I guess I'm either more forgiving or my definition of "horrible" is a lot more demanding than yours. Say, something close to the level of Ninja Resurrection, for example, not just something disliked (the second set of Rurouni Kenshin OVAs) or which didn't fulfill several of my expectations (Code Geass R2). Too bad you can't give Higurashi a chance though.

As for the (voice) actors in Code Geass...I don't speak Japanese, but I never had the impression they were acting inappropriately for their roles or any less over the top in either season. They didn't suddenly make me cringe any more than they would have before.
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:51 am Reply with quote
I am sorry but I can't take this seriously

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw6b4N36efM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4GxHEW4sJg

I especially like the last scene, as its right out of one of those bad horror movies. All that's missing is "The End?" in red.

Personally my favorite part of Code Geass, is the sword Lelouch has in R2 that looks like a big plastic toy from Wal-Mart, hopefully Sunrise won't edit it out when the DVDs come out.

Although Emperocket is pretty hilarious as well.
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