Forum - View topicHonorifics used in official subs?
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farruinn
 Posts: 122 |
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Has anyone ever seen honorifics used in official subtitles? I generally prefer subs over English dubs. Sometimes it really annoys me when Japanese honorifics are translated into something else in English. I don't speak Japanese, but it seems to me that the use of different honorifics conveys things about the relationships between characters that simply can't be translated.
So, have you ever seen an official sub that preserved the honorifics? |
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braves
 Posts: 2309 Location: Puerto Rico (but living in Texas) |
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Yeah, the only company that keeps in the honorifics consistently is FUNimation. I don't really care for them either way to be honest. I really find the importance of honorifics to be overrated because there are very few shows where they have a significant role in the plot and where they can't be translated into English appropriately.
Last edited by braves on Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Unit 03.5-ish
Posts: 1540 Location: This space for rent |
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...Dokuro-chan count, since all the characters have -chan or -san or -kun or whatever attached to their names?
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johnny0313x
Posts: 3 |
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what is honorifics?
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6903 Location: Kazune City |
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Anyway, these are some official releases other than Funimation's that I know to have preserved at least some honorifics: * Angelic Layer (ADV) -- kept -chan for plot-relevant reasons * Azumanga Daioh (ADV) -- left the -chan on Chiyo's name, for no apparent reason other than the cuteness factor. * Cosplay Complex (ADV/Monster Island) -- kept Senpai * Steel Angel Kurumi (ADV) -- left "Kurumi-chan" in one scene where it was relevant to the flow of the dialogue, where Kurumi tells Nakahito to act like her master and call her Kurumi rather than Kurumi-chan. * Wlcome to the NHK (ADV) -- left Senpai intact, which is surprising since ADV usually uses the accurate-but-"I wish they'd just leave it out" equivalent of "Senior." * Risky/Safety (AnimeNation/Bang Zoom!) -- I think this left honorifics in...I mean, it left stuff like "Yoroshiku baby, desu no!" in the subs and the English track, so I don't see why they wouldn't have left honorifics in. * Lucky Star (Bandai/Bang Zoom!) -- left most honorifics in. * My-Otome (Bandai/Ocean-Calgary) -- keeps -chan in a few cases, although its handling of "Nina-chan" is one of the most bizarre things I've witnessed. * Planetes (Bandai/Bang Zoom!) -- left Senpai in with a note. * Please Twins! (Bandai/Bang Zoom!) -- left Senpai in with a note. * Ai yori aoshi / Enishis (Geneon/Bang Zoom!) -- kept most honorifics, although they were incredibly inconsistent. For instance, Aoi's "Kaoru-sama" remained "Kaoru-sama," while Miyabi's "Aoi-sama" became "Lady Aoi." And while most instances of -chan, -kun, -senpai, and -sama were retained, -san was consistently rendered as "Miss." Would this be "hypocrisy or selective bullshyte"? * Hanaukyo Maid Team ~La Verite~ (Geneon/Bang Zoom!) -- haven't seen this one myself, but I've heard some complaints about honorifics being left in the subs as well as the dub. * I My Me Strawberry Eggs (Geneon/New Generation Pictures) -- kept most honorifics intact, as well as other random Japanese words like "buruma." * Kannazuki no Miko (Geneon/Bang Zoom!) -- leaves most -chan and -sama in. * Shakugan no Shana (Geneon/Ocean-Vancouver) -- left some -chan and -kun in the subtitles, though I didn't see any plot-relevant reason to do so. * Stellvia (Geneon/Bang Zoom!) -- left "Shima-chan" as is, but translated most other honorifics IIRC. * Strawberry Marshmallow (Geneon/Ocean-Vancouver) * Ultra Maniac (Geneon/Bang Zoom!) -- leaves most -chan and -kun in. * Kashimashi ~Girl Meets Girl~ (Media-Blasters) -- left -san in for a plot-relevant scene, but omits honorifics otherwise. Maria Watches Over Us (Nozomi) -- has alternate "fan-favored" subtitle tracks that retain honorifics. I'm Gonna Be An Angel (Synch-Point) -- had an alternate "fan-favored" subtitle track that kept honorifics, though I don't know which ones or how many. Didn't work out too well for them, though... Back when I was first exposed to fansubs in 2004, I thought honorifics in subtitles were just about the coolest thing ever. But now, I don't care if they're there or not. The thing is, if you know what honorifics mean, you can distinguish them from the audio. However, if you don't already know what they mean, they don't convey any additional information. Unless of course, you go looking though liner notes or searching for info online as to what they mean, and you can't get much further from "breaking immersion" than that. And at worst, honorifics in subtitles are just space-burners to the point where they require omissions/simplifications in the translations of actual dialogue content. There's only so much space and time available for each line of dialogue, and subtitlers don't want to make people pause the screen to read 3 or 4 lines. I know I try to stick to 2 lines / 72 characters in the subtitles I write, anyway. Let's not forget that many watch anime for entertainment rather than cultural/linguistic enlightenment. Also keep in mind that official subs are designed to be accessible to wider audiences than the hardcore fansub-watching crowd. And for purposes of entertainment and accessibility, it's better to adapt honorifics to English when it can be done smoothly. For those who saw a.f.k.'s Lucky Star, didn't you find "Call me Kagami the Great" funnier than simply "Call me Kagami-sama"? I know I did. Last edited by Zalis116 on Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Anton Chigurh
 Posts: 257 Location: Guam |
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The only translation that I feel does not warp the dialogue's flow in a sub or dub is to use "Mr." or "Mrs." when a "-san" appears. Anything else distracts from the show's overall progress.
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البابَ
Posts: 4 |
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I like to see it, but I don't really mind when it's absent. The only people who're going to notice are probably watching enough anime with the Japanese on that they'll hear the honorifics and recognize them anywise. So, while it proves significant to a certain subset of fans, at the same time they're the ones who don't honestly need it.
Plus, it's just one more level of alienation that companies avoid for the casual fan who just can't stand dub. There are people that only watch anime occasionally, but prefer subs, who aren't as familiar with Japanese culture, who'd probably be put off by that. |
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Ggultra2764
 Subscriber Posts: 3988 Location: New York state. |
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Outside of Funimation, there aren't very many cases I recall of honorifics being used in the subtitles of official anime releases unless they are either used as a sort of nickname or greatly used to show certain character relationships.
The only known case I know of where official subs have honorifics intact was in Azumanga Daioh. Some honorifics like "-san" and "-chan" were intact while others like "sempai" were translated into English. In the subtitles I have for the official release of Read or Die TV, the subtitles keep the "sensei" honorific intact in regards to Yomiko, Michelle, and Maggie's respect of Nenene as a writer. |
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Mushi-Man
 Posts: 1537 Location: KCMO |
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I still don't get why people care that much about honorifics. It's not like it really contributes to the story in any manner. It's not like I have anything against honorifics, it's just I don't see why people get annoyed when subs or dubs don't use them.
Anyways, as Zalis116 has already brought up, it's been to my understanding that Funimation is pretty good at doing honorifics. In addition (maybe) to his list that he gave, I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that Shikabane Hime sub has honorifics in it. Although I can't quite remember, I could just be imagining things. |
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braves
Posts: 2309 Location: Puerto Rico (but living in Texas) |
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I still haven't watched the Shikabane Hime subs, but that's FUNimation's too.
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farruinn
Posts: 122 |
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I'll give you that. I guess I just find it distracting sometimes. "Bro" and "sis" go beyond distracting and into pet-peeve, although I don't know if they show up much outside fansubs.
True, they don't do anything for the plot (usually), but as I said originally, "to me that the use of different honorifics conveys things about the relationships between characters that simply can't be translated." Similar to the significance of using first names, this sort of thing doesn't translate well. |
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Top Gun
 Posts: 4862 |
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If it's a matter of subtitles, though, one can still easily hear them in the Japanese audio, so putting them in the text doesn't do much good. If you're specifically looking for them, they'll jump out at you. If it's a dub you're talking about, they generally sound completely unnatural, since we just don't use them in English, and there's nothing they convey that can't be replicated by different vocal inflections fairly easily. One uses a rather different tone of voice when treating someone with respect than when they're dismissing someone as childish. As far as the topic goes, I'd assume that the official subtitles of FLCL use honorifics, since even the dub included them. That's just about the only place I've been in favor of their inclusion, though, since it just added to the whole offbeat feel of the series. |
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sk1199
Posts: 162 |
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Hanaukyo Team La Verite uses honorifics in its English dub. There are a few scenes where the honorific changes to represent a change one character feels for another (as it's supposed to be, I suppose).
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_Earthwyrm_
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Weird, that's the only one that I find to be a distraction. 'Senior' I'm fine with, 'Lord' or 'Lady' are fine too... But it seems rude (and really weird) to me to call someone by their last name in any situation but the most formal (or if they're your teacher and you're under 18). Maybe that's just the residual effect of my Mum only ever calling me "Mr. ________" when I was in trouble. 
Personally, I'd rather (in most cases) that 'san' and 'chan' are left out of translation altogether and don't appear in the script for the sub or the dub. 'Sensei' can be left out or substituted with 'Mr/Mrs/Miss' (for a teacher!), 'Dr.', etc. as the context demands. 'Sama' always sounds pretty goofy to me when it's left in, but so do 'Lord' and 'Lady', so that's a lose-lose. 
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Unit 03.5-ish
Posts: 1540 Location: This space for rent |
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Point/response for Zalis: a tad OT, but you bring up how most people don't watch this stuff to educate themselves on Japanese culture, to which I say: why do fans get so uproarious over translators not including some obscure reference in the official translation, or changing it to something that would make more sense to us? Localization is a very vital part of the translation process and it ensures that Japanese cultural references won't have us scratching our heads, so they put in the US equivalent. Most anime fans who bicker about it don't have a clue about Japanese culture in the first place, so what's their beef?
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