Forum - View topicNEWS: Japan's Lack of Laws on Virtual Child Porn Criticized
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CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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Do you REALLY think it's just the world ganging up on Japan? Really? Or is it the foaming-at-the-mouth mania people have to "Protect the beasts & the children, for in this world, they have no voice, they have no choice" It's the same image the pro-life crew wave saying they are protecting life, but it's not their problem if those kids are abused after they're born because the mom can't cope or isn't fit to be a mom in the first place. It's all nice, simple scare-monger tactics not unlike the pro-Prop 8 crew who used the "Allow gay marriage today & tomorrow it'll be people marrying their pets & then your 9 yr old son!!!!!!!!" That old Slippery Slope everyone loves to use when they are promoting their cause of the moment.
That's an old idea in sci fi actually. Really, look at Santa magically knowing who's naughty or nice. God's watching us all & will punish us.
And then you mention the guy in Iowa. It is a very real thing.
But it's harder to end the suffering of children starving in Korea or Africa because their own governments are causing it, so it's really so much easier to direct their attention to other stuff where they might actually manage to have some success. Don't you know it gets discouraging to be plugging along for decades & this stuff is still happening? Obviously they have to erase EVERYTHING that might be causing the problem. I remember a news program in the early '80's that did a story on the rise of the Pro-life movement. Their claim was when Roe vs Wade passed, there was barely a word of protest, but church attendance started declining & preachers started looking for a way to fill the pews & all those unborn babies became excellent fodder. I odn't know if the report had all their facts straight or not, but we've seen it, haven't we? Rally the troops against the enemy using propoganda to demonize the other side?
You really have a hair up your rear on this subject. Yes, we've ALL heard about priests molesting children. And we also hear of parents molesting their own kids. Whoopie. Humans are humans & there are good people & bad people no matter their race, creed, color, nationality, sex, or occupation.
Prove it. I have accepted this type of thought all my life. I see no purpose to stuff like Kodomo no whatever & I really can't see the point in looking at drawings of sexualized children HOWEVER I have been a fan of horror stories & shows most of my life. I have seen people slaughtered in the most horrendous fashion I have no desire to kill anyone. I have no desire to cut a piece of anyone off I have no desire to buy a gun & shoot people who offend me. I know a lot of other fans of violent stuff who also have no desire to harm others. No, I really can't see the reason people want to look at loli, but my mother-in-law used to say there was something wrong with me for watching all the "sick, violent" shows I do. Honestly, I have to grant the fans of loli the same room I allow myself that I do enjoy watching an incredibly powerful character like Alucard brutally slaughter a dozen or so bad guys in seconds There's a concept known as "catharsis" If fans of these manga people are trying to ban are using the manga as a catharsis, isn't it better than their really going after living children? And if they are just enjoying the images as cute, there's no problem, is there? Last edited by CCSYueh on Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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angel_lover
Posts: 645 Location: UK |
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You mean a graphic novel version of something like Alex Haley's Roots? Yes, I'd be cool with that. Of course, that's not quite the point. But you really need to distinguish coolness from legality, and things that you personally find distasteful, or even that the vast majority find distasteful, from things that should be banned. |
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penguintruth
Posts: 8491 Location: Penguinopolis |
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As disgusting as that would be, free speech is not about regulating personal taste. You would have every right to do that, and I would defend that right, despite disagreeing with your views. If I depict a man murdering another man, does that make me guilty of murder? Of course not. Then if I depict somebody having sex with an underage girl, as awful as that is, I would not be guilty of rape. Otherwise, if I was, then you have to convict the people who depict murder in drawings as murderers. |
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Ggultra2764
Subscriber
Posts: 3951 Location: New York state. |
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There is such a thing as being hypersensitive to any content you would find questionable just because it goes against your own personal beliefs. Rather than try to get a sense of why people watch or endorse this stuff, you simply label it "immoral" and call anyone watching it a pedophile feeling like you are the right one in this case. I'm sure everyone else posting in this thread has a level head and open mind when it comes to the subject matter being discussed. I doubt anyone is gonna want to do anything to a child in real life just because they seen it from an anime series. It's ignorant to make a preconceived notion that watching lolicon or shotacon anime makes someone a pedophile. |
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Bussani
Posts: 6 |
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Whether it's morally right or wrong, that doesn't stop a fictional work about it being created. There have been movies and books on the subject, that doesn't mean the people who created them or the people who watch/read them are racist KKK members, does it? You're talking about banning free speech. While I'm sure you have good intentions, do you really think that's a good idea? To be honest, I'm not sure I understand people who say the whole lolicon thing is a totally different subject to blaming video games for violence. There was violence, rape and child abuse before any of these mediums were invented and they won't go away just by trying to ban them. By banning them and making them even more taboo you might just tempt more people into looking into it, because humans are crazy like that. I just don't understand people who can't see there's a difference between fiction and reality. Looking at pictures of rape doesn't make you a rapist. Does liking lolicon make you a pedophile? I don't know, maybe it does. Are they sick people? Maybe, maybe not, it's really not my place to say. But you can't and shouldn't be allowed to punish someone for something they haven't done, that's the real issue people are having with these laws. Taking away free speech is bad enough, but free thought? |
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DmonHiro
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Bussani could not have said it better. How about we convict people who think about killing someone? Hou about we give someone who wrote a book about mass murder, life in prison? How about we jail someone for saying "I could rob that store If I wanted to"? Where does it end?
You can't punish someone for something they have not even TRIED to do. Yes, there is "atempted murder", but that actually means that someone TRIED to kill someone and failed. How do you go from that to "you read lolicon manga, so I'm going to arrest you before you molest children". That's like saiyng "you read this comic about killing the asian people, so I'm going to arrest you before you commit genocide". How the hell can anyone think such a thing is right. It's preposterous to accuse someone that he is going to copy what he read in a book. |
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otimus
Posts: 63 |
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Loli stuff is absolutely disgusting, and people who enjoy it are equally as disgusting, however, it should not be illegal... HOWEVER, it also shouldn't be defended. You should not stand there and defend someone's right to look at fake child porn. You should remain mum on it, and let it fall under the broad spectrum of freedom of speech in fiction. Leave it to anime fans, though, to do so. (Usually for the wrong reasons.... "DONT TAKE MAH CARDCAPTOR SAKURA DOUJINS!!!")
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penguintruth
Posts: 8491 Location: Penguinopolis |
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All free speech should be defended, regardless of the consequences. Because who know what regulation of this will lead to next. It must be known that this sort of attack on free speech is unacceptable now, and forever. |
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angel_lover
Posts: 645 Location: UK |
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You really haven't got the idea of a free society, have you. As H. L. Mencken once said:
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Chiaki777
Posts: 65 Location: Bay Area, California |
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If pedophilia is wrong, how will I justify my love for Sasami? By law, she's only 16 since her inception as a fictitious character in 1992.
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CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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No less a virtual authority on the subject than Captain America DID, in fact, defend the right of a group of White Supremist to march down the streets of a city. When asked, he said that in the name of freedom, these people, no matter what one thinks of their message, had as much a right to their free speech as the person asking the question & that the person questioning the White Supremist group's right to Free Speech & Free Assembly should PEACEFULLY present their side in the same area to counter the hate the White Supremists were spewing. The problem is the "peaceful" because tempers flare & fighting breaks out. |
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R315r4z0r
Posts: 717 |
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Repeating what I said before, the majority of people never actually think past a law or try to level with it.
If you ask some random person on the street: "Why is it illegal to drive over the speed limit?" The majority of the time they will probably say something along the lines of "Because you can get a ticket." Obviously, that isn't the reason why there is a speed limit.. there is a limit because going too fast dumbs down your senses as well as requires faster reflexes to avoid accidents. It's a safety issue, not whether or not you get caught and go to jail. It's the same with these sorts of laws and many others similar to this. It's just that after a while people slowly adapt to what is and make that the standard and then never look back as to why it is the standard. If you don't understand what I mean, I'll put it another way: Child porn may have started small and then gradually been given consequences for its action, but only after the first few dozen cases, there starts to develop a form of "mental system" that people will start thinking away from the reasons why it is illegal in the first place. Meaning, people will, instead of seeing how harmful it is to children and putting that reasoning behind why there are laws against it, start to forget that it's harmful to children and instead just look at the people guilty of such crimes and just say "You're under arrest because you're a disgusting weirdo." ...err I know I talk in ways that is hard to understand... but what ever, the bottom line is this: Laws aren't just made for the sake of being made or for the sake of limiting you for no reason. Laws are put into place for reasons. Instead of judging someone is guilty or not of doing something just by referencing the law, you should judge a person guilty by referencing the reasoning behind a law. That is why this case is ridiculous. The reasoning behind the laws against child pornography are simple: It harms the children who are involved and is considered child abuse which can cause damage on the child's future. Now taking that reasoning, look now at this case. How does, in any way, shape or form, having fictional drawings of child pornography conflict with the reasoning I just mentioned above? What children are abused? What children are emotionally scarred? Don't give me "well it plants the seeds in someone's mind that it is ok to do this" because that is a desperate attempt to aid a failing argument. If it makes people want to really do it, would they be buying MANGA versions of it? If they really wanted to do it with real children, wouldn't they at least posses ACTUAL child porn? And that's even besides the point... if you think about it logically, possessing child porn without having a hand in aiding its creation can only serve to lower the urge for people to actually go out and do such things. The same can be said about violent video games and movies. It's an emotional and physical virtual output where it is perfectly safe to input your feelings into, and is preferred as well because no one is really getting hurt. Would you rather a child molester sit on a street corner picking up kids to kidnap and molest and hurt or rather him sit at home, alone, with a fictional manga of drawings of child porn? If it isn't hurting a kid it shouldn't be illegal. If you aren't aiding in hurting a kid then you shouldn't be liable for any problems concerning the crime. Just my thoughts on the matter. (Sorry I'm a bit hard to follow... :V) |
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Bussani
Posts: 6 |
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The only valid reason I can come up with is owning it means you brought it, buying it means you paid for it, and that means you're indirectly encouraging the industry to create more. Which is wrong because...uhh...it's immoral and they might be using real children as models to create it? Even if I try to imagine the possible reasons, it still sounds pretty weak. But that is what the people making the laws seem to believe, real children could potentially be being hurt. It's a tough issue, but I don't think they should be arresting and condemning people for ifs and buts. |
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grgspunk
Posts: 136 |
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Are you kidding me? The fact that Japan has a LOT of wealth, and is actively engaging global trade shows that they ARE in a position to defend themselves. Their position in the world economy is more than enough leverage. I highly doubt that our own government would be stupid enough to suddenly engage in hostile activities with Japan or cut off any sort of support, because that would mean we'd have to compromise our ability to trade and do business with each other. That means we lose money in providing them with our exports, and we lose goods in imports. That is not good for EITHER side. Do you really think we'd somehow be better off (or any other country, for that matter) if we cut off all trade and support for one of the world's largest economies, just to make a statement about their cartoons? Last edited by grgspunk on Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:25 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Glimon_91
Posts: 11 |
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So far, I have seen lots of posts already, but I think THIS one is the most reasonable one. Actually, I think that if a few lawyers checking the case of the guy of Iowa go through here, they could get some pretty good material to defend Chris... C ya... |
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