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AirCooledMan_2006
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 594
Location: Delaware, U.S.
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Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:24 pm
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Yuki_Kun45 wrote: |
AirCooledMan_2006 wrote: |
MorwenLaicoriel wrote: | I disagree on the honorifics. For a show like Ouran, that's set in a Japanese school, I think they're important. They carry a lot of weight, and they're part of the culture. They're easy to explain with a insert in the DVD, too. I learned about honorifics when I was first getting into anime and manga, and it didn't take me long to figure them out with help from translator's notes. |
No, they're totally unnecessary, and a form of language-mixing. Get rid of the damn honorifics. The relationships are IMPLIED anyway, so you're not missing anything. Again, it's just pandering to weeaboos who think Japan is holy. We don't use Japanese honorifics in the West; why include them in an English anime dub other than to pander to weeaboos, or as a mark of hypocrisy or laziness!? A translator cannot and must not leave some words in Japanese (Or any other language) while translating others. He must choose ONE meaning, ONE interpretation, which means finding ways around honorifics and other nuances. This puts the skills of the translator to a severe test, giving him a mental challenge. To say "Oh, it can't be translated" and then leave it as is is the mark of a lazy translator who has no business even translating anything in the first place! |
Funny because you just remarked in an earlier post that Japanese is a SACRED language that should never be tampered with. Sounds pretty weeaboo to me. |
No, I said it was part of the BELIEF that Japanese is some sacred language, which it's not. I don't subscribe to such a belief. Those who do should go back to /a/.
What you just made is what we call a straw man arguement, in which case I shall kick the burning embers around. No need to worry about losing the Strawperson-American vote.
Quote: | Honorifics in dubs are unnecessary and usually sound awkward. If honorifics are that important to you, then watch the Japanese version (and, no, honorifics don't need to be subtitled, either, because you can hear them). Yes, they convey concepts that aren't exactly translatable into English, but there are a lot of other elements of Japanese that don't translate, either. Should they slap 'masu' and 'desu' at the end of sentences of characters who are speaking politely? Or have them use 'ore', 'boku', 'watashi', 'atashi', or any of the many other personal pronouns that exist in Japanese in the English version, just because translating them all as 'I' loses the original feeling? Hell, why not just have them repeat the entire script in badly mispronounced Japanese, with translator's notes to explain what's going on ? If all of the original intricacies of the Japanese language are what you're looking for, don't look for a dub to recreate them, because it's simply not possible. The Japanese version should sound natural to the Japanese audience, and the English version should have the same effect for English viewers, not sound like an awkward attempt to replicate the original. |
Amen, amen, amen to that! That's the arguement I was getting at when I said that honorifics have no place in dubs. The English translations (Dub and sub) should sound natural to English-speaking viewers, much like how the Japanese version should sound natural to the Japanese.
As for concepts that don't translate well between languages, that's why you find alternate ways of "expressing the unexpressable". True translators FIND WAYS AROUND HONORIFICS AND OTHER NUANCES instead of just being lazy-asses and leaving them intact. This puts the skills of a translator to a real test, giving them a challenge and an opportunity to show what they can pull off. Nor should honorifics be subbed, because, as you said, you can just hear them anyway in the Japanese audio track, so you're not missing anything. Hell, you don't slap "desu" at the end of a sentence unless you want to sound like Suiseiseki fanboys posting on 4chan.
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MorwenLaicoriel
Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 1617
Location: Colorado
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Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:02 pm
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JesuOtaku wrote: |
EDIT: Waitwaitwaitwaitwait...that's VIC singing the ED "Shisshou?" |
Actually no, it's not Vic. He adapted the lyrics, and there was a demo floating around on Youtube of him singing it, but the song that was used in the actual dub was someone else...I forget what his name is, though.
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
Joined: 15 Jan 2008
Posts: 3728
Location: SoCal
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Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:32 pm
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MorwenLaicoriel wrote: |
JesuOtaku wrote: |
EDIT: Waitwaitwaitwaitwait...that's VIC singing the ED "Shisshou?" |
Actually no, it's not Vic. He adapted the lyrics, and there was a demo floating around on Youtube of him singing it, but the song that was used in the actual dub was someone else...I forget what his name is, though. |
Oooookay, thanks for weirdin' me out. I thought that sounded waaay out of his range. But I could almost hear some of his timbre in it after I had been fooled.
Yeah, it isn't him. That makes way more sense. -.-'
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TsukasaElkKite
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 4005
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Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 11:27 pm
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JesuOtaku wrote: | I know! What's cool about this dub is that it's not only "well-translated" or whatever, but that's it's actually FUNNY in English, and you don't have to be an anime fan to think so.
The way Vic pronounces things as angry Tamaki is silly in general because he enunciates so well when he's being charming, but he gets all drippy and babyish in his speech when he's mad.
"I don't understand how you're so popular with the ladies when you yourself are a LAY-DAY!" I nearly bust a lung and fell out of my chair.
EDIT: Waitwaitwaitwaitwait...that's VIC singing the ED "Shisshou?" |
Yus! I love it that it's both well translated and gut bustingly funny!
*snort* Oh GAWD!
Vic adapted the lyrics.
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fuuma_monou
Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 1841
Location: Quezon City, Philippines
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Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:29 am
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Regarding honorifics in dubs:
The Tagalog dub of School Rumble season 2 has a few scenes where Harima is addressed as "teacher", which is obviously a mistranslation of sensei. In this case it would've been better to not translate sensei. A few series have been dubbed here with senpai intact.
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K.o.R
Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 223
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Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:48 am
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fuuma_monou wrote: | Regarding honorifics in dubs:
The Tagalog dub of School Rumble season 2 has a few scenes where Harima is addressed as "teacher", which is obviously a mistranslation of sensei. In this case it would've been better to not translate sensei. A few series have been dubbed here with senpai intact. |
Well I'd say that was an exact translation of "sensei" but it sounds awkward (most countries refer to teachers as "sir", "madam" or "miss").
I don't have too much problem with honourifics in dubs , but I prefer it when they are skillfully written around. Some exceptions are where for example "chan" is pretty much a permanent part of the character's name (e.g. Chiyo-chan) or is a nickname (like Haru-chan in this case being Honey's personal nickname for her)
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fuuma_monou
Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 1841
Location: Quezon City, Philippines
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Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:11 am
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K.o.R wrote: |
fuuma_monou wrote: | Regarding honorifics in dubs:
The Tagalog dub of School Rumble season 2 has a few scenes where Harima is addressed as "teacher", which is obviously a mistranslation of sensei. In this case it would've been better to not translate sensei. A few series have been dubbed here with senpai intact. |
Well I'd say that was an exact translation of "sensei" but it sounds awkward (most countries refer to teachers as "sir", "madam" or "miss").
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Harima's not a teacher, but he is a manga artist. Manga-ka tend to be called sensei just like teachers and doctors.
(As for "sir", the Japanese dub of the Peanuts cartoon had Marcie calling Peppermint Patty "senpai".)
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peachsncreamsoda
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 270
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Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:25 am
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JesuOtaku wrote: |
MorwenLaicoriel wrote: |
JesuOtaku wrote: |
EDIT: Waitwaitwaitwaitwait...that's VIC singing the ED "Shisshou?" |
Actually no, it's not Vic. He adapted the lyrics, and there was a demo floating around on Youtube of him singing it, but the song that was used in the actual dub was someone else...I forget what his name is, though. |
Oooookay, thanks for weirdin' me out. I thought that sounded waaay out of his range. But I could almost hear some of his timbre in it after I had been fooled.
Yeah, it isn't him. That makes way more sense. -.-' |
is it me or doesn't the person singing the ending theme sound like J. Michael Tatum singing? (the guy doing Kyoya's voice, and Jiros in Black Blood Brothers)
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peachsncreamsoda
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 270
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Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:26 am
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JesuOtaku wrote: |
MorwenLaicoriel wrote: |
JesuOtaku wrote: |
EDIT: Waitwaitwaitwaitwait...that's VIC singing the ED "Shisshou?" |
Actually no, it's not Vic. He adapted the lyrics, and there was a demo floating around on Youtube of him singing it, but the song that was used in the actual dub was someone else...I forget what his name is, though. |
Oooookay, thanks for weirdin' me out. I thought that sounded waaay out of his range. But I could almost hear some of his timbre in it after I had been fooled.
Yeah, it isn't him. That makes way more sense. -.-' |
is it me or doesn't the person singing the ending theme sound like J. Michael Tatum singing? (the guy doing Kyoya's voice, and Jiros in Black Blood Brothers)
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peachsncreamsoda
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 270
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Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:26 am
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sorry for posting twice it was an accident
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K.o.R
Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 223
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Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:49 am
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fuuma_monou wrote: |
Harima's not a teacher, but he is a manga artist. Manga-ka tend to be called sensei just like teachers and doctors.
(As for "sir", the Japanese dub of the Peanuts cartoon had Marcie calling Peppermint Patty "senpai".) |
Ah, my bad. Having not seen the show I was unaware of that.
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Chibi Alchemist
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 15
Location: Southern California
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Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:54 am
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I love FUNimation! <3
I watched the first two episodes of Ouran yesterday morning. Put me in hyper mode all day. It was wonderful to finally watch the dub without screaming fangirls in the background like in the clips on YouTube. That's just no way to judge a dub. That reason alone makes it almost better to watch it online than go to a con for an early screening... or that could just be my own attempt at consolation since I couldn't make it to one.
Anyway, the dub was great! I always knew Vic could pull off Tamaki. I still don't care for Kyoya's voice, but I can live with it and it may even grow on me. I usually love dubbed songs like in Fruits Basket and Yu Yu Hakusho, but these weren't good at all. They lacked enthusiasm and energy. I'm also not a big fan of honorifics in dubs. I like them in subs and English translated manga, but I don't think they sound right in dubs. I can live with it, though.
Overall, the dub made me feel the exact same way I did when I first watched Ouran in Japanese. I say that's a pretty successful dub. I can't wait to finally own it later this month!
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Asrialys
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 1164
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Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:01 pm
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You guys are posting on one of the biggest anime databases on the Internet and none of you seem to have bothered even looking at the Ouran page to see who sung what.
OP - Kristine Sa
ED - Justin Houston
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enurtsol
Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14876
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Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:50 pm
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Asrialys wrote: |
enurtsol wrote: | Actually, theme song dubbing seems to be a lost art. It used to be done a lot more in the 90's, especially by Pioneer (since they either own the songs already, or the Japanese owners weren't complaining/suing). |
Which shows were these? I don't own many of those old Pioneer shows beyond anything related to Tenchi Muyo, Cardcaptor Sakura, and Sailor Moon. |
I can't think straight right now, but I recall Viz dubbing several Ranma songs, even as far as a group forming Doco USA (Doco was the Japanese group who sang the songs).
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Asrialys
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 1164
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Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:30 am
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enurtsol wrote: |
Asrialys wrote: |
enurtsol wrote: | Actually, theme song dubbing seems to be a lost art. It used to be done a lot more in the 90's, especially by Pioneer (since they either own the songs already, or the Japanese owners weren't complaining/suing). |
Which shows were these? I don't own many of those old Pioneer shows beyond anything related to Tenchi Muyo, Cardcaptor Sakura, and Sailor Moon. |
I can't think straight right now, but I recall Viz dubbing several Ranma songs, even as far as a group forming Doco USA (Doco was the Japanese group who sang the songs). |
Oh...
I thought you were talking about Pioneer dubs...
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