Forum - View topicbad grammar on the boards...
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cookie
Former ANN Editor in Chief
 Posts: 2460 Location: Do not contact me for support. |
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IRC is a protocol. mIRC is an IRC client (i.e. an implementation of the IRC protocol) mIRC is NOT the only IRC client available.. it's only the most popular Windows IRC client because it's uncrippled shareware, so few (if any) users buy it. As far as the technology is concerned, they're very, very different. This discussion, however, has no application to the bad grammar/spelling issue. Please keep things on topic. |
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PlayBoi
Posts: 119 Location: Cali |
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why does "bad grammer" bother you guys so much? It's a forum not a school essay. "1337" words as they're most commonly refered as make typing a lot faster. Sure you may think im ignorant or whatever because my grammer doesnt come across like it should...but we're on the internet and I personally could careless if my wording doesn't meet your standards. Infact, only on this message board do I try to have proper spelling and grammer because it makes some of you so damn unpleasent...otherwise I wouldnt feel like wasting my time typing correctly when in actuality it makes no difference since I'm sure most of you get my point anyway. That *one study pretty much proves it..where I can type or write a word anyway I want as long as tha first and last letters are correct and you'll still understand.
*Sorry I forget what it's called |
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ZahmiraV
 Posts: 243 Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada |
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I think the forums here are great because grammer is enforced. Using proper grammer makes it a lot easier to read. It doesn't take that much effort to write properly, and it is for the benefit of everyone!
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Emerje
 Posts: 7390 Location: Maine |
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Yeah, if people aren't going to take the time to make sure they write something right, then it's probably not worth reading their posts in the first place.
Emerje |
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cookie
Former ANN Editor in Chief
Posts: 2460 Location: Do not contact me for support. |
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1. Waeevthr snecentes bcmeoe rvreseed nvrhlseetees dsobbltauomcie crbareel fntoinnicug. 2. she sotps ahoetnr ccreaathr ginog aonrud the cenorr. PlayBoi, decypher these two and tell me what they read, and tell me how long it took for you to do them. Everyone else, you can try to figure them out on your own if you want, but please do NOT post the answers. |
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PlayBoi
Posts: 119 Location: Cali |
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Took me about 20 seconds I had to re-read tha first one because of those long ones
 . Why did you want me to do that anyway? To show it takes a little longer to get across? Its not like its 'that' hard to understand when people dont take their time on proper grammer, lighten up who wants a perfect world? But hey this is your board your rules ( I guess they're rules) so im more then happy to follow them since I can still type how I want on tha other message board I go to.
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Nagisa
Moderator
 Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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Prove it by typing them out.
Who says we can't at least attempt to reach such a goal? Face it, unless you have a good excuse like English not being your first language, bad grammar makes you look like an idiot and it gives other people a bigger hurdle in understanding what inane little point you had to make in the first place.
Then why are you complaining? |
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PlayBoi
Posts: 119 Location: Cali |
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Theres no way for me to prove it you should know that. Even if I do write it out correctly it proves nothing. Well Nagisa not everyone is like you, wanting to be perfectly all tha time. Like I said I could careless if my grammer looks bad to someone i'll never meet all that matters is if you get what im saying. But what your saying is before I travel to Japan I must first be able to properly read,write, and speak tha language otherwise I shouldnt be able to go? Oh nevermind since its not my first language its alright.My point is I can travel to another country (like Japan) even without all tha proper tools or knowledge and be ok. But its unexceptable to have bad grammer on a message board? even though I should be able to type as I see fit without worry of being prohibited. I mean I can go to another country without knowing tha language as long as I follow tha rules and I respect their culture/property/customs/ect. Thats all that should be expected of me on a message board, not wheather I know how to spell or put words into correct sentences. And to make it clear I wasnt complaining I was trying to get into some of your heads and see why it matters so much to someone how my grammer is and at tha same time give you my point of view. |
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PlayBoi
Posts: 119 Location: Cali |
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I guess that also means all tha tens of millions of users that have cells phones/2-ways and text message eachother are all inferior to you as well...what a bunch of bakas they must be.
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cookie
Former ANN Editor in Chief
Posts: 2460 Location: Do not contact me for support. |
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Yes, please give me the original sentences for the two. The fact that you had to re-read the first one shows that the study is flawed, because not only is it possible to mis-read unclear sentences, but that the message being conveyed in those sentences can also be distorted and/or lost. Therefore, there IS some benefit to being clear and precise in your writing. Since there is a benefit to clear writing, and we are a (theoretically) intelligent forum, we would do well to promote clear writing. We can do that to a limited degree automatically, by correcting the spelling of certain words, phrases and terms. Anywho.... The two sentences actually point out different problems with the "study", but by making a mistake on either, you show that it's really not a very good study. The reason the "study" appears to work is due to a very low amount of entropy in the remaining letters for most words, because there can only be (word_length-2)*(word_length-3)*(word_length-4)...*(word_length-(N-1)) possible letter orders, where N is equal to the length of the word. So a 3 letter word only has length-2 possibilities: 1 (xAy) A 4 letter word only has length-2*length-3 possibilities: 2 (xABy, xBAy) 5 letters: 6 orders (xABCy, xACBy, xBACy, xBCAy, xCABy, xCBAy) 6 letters: 24 orders 7 letters: 120 orders Most words in English, tenseless, prefix and suffix-less, are 5 letters or less.. therefore your mind only needs to roll through 6 possibilities for each word, thanks to this "study". But, as evidenced by the first sentence, when you have 9, 12 or 14 letters, the number of possible solutions grows increasingly large.. which slows you down as you decypher it -- and when you slow down decypher the word, you no longer are "reading" it. Rather, you are trying to find a solution to a puzzle by trying large numbers of letter combinations. It's a different mental state, and that shift from "reading" to "puzzling" takes time; 20 seconds in your case. That's time that could've better been spent thinking about the implication of these sentences, or about anime or whatever... rather than trying to simply figure out what the words were.
No, not really. It serves their purpose -- which is expeditious communication. There are a set of shorthand words used due to technological limitations and laziness, that work fine in the text-messaging environment, which is filled with short sentences and blurbs. However, we aren't in a text-messaging environment. This is a forum, as you yourself pointed out. We prefer a more lengthy response, which allows the poster time to think about his or her argument and to craft it better. Last edited by cookie on Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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rage-demon
 Posts: 356 Location: WA, USA |
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Umm... wow.
Playboi, is it really that bad that there is a board that actually encourages the use of proper English? Obviously it seems like schools aren't doing a very good job of teaching kids to *use* proper grammar outside of school. There are too many people who will only use proper English when it's a rule. Why not just use it everywhere. Oh sure it's easier to us "1337" talk on the internet. But if you use proper English, it feels like you are in an actual conversation. I don’t' know about you, but when I’m on the forums, I prefer to feel like I’m in a normal discussion. |
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Nagisa
Moderator
Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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A foreign-language country and a same-language message board are not congruent. If you go to a place that primarily speaks a language you are not familiar with, it's only expected that you communicate to the best of your abilities. However, if you go to a place that speaks the same language you do, it's expected that you demonstrate a competent grasp of that language. Not doing so makes you look stupid, plain & simple. And before you bring it up, usin' slang and being too lazy to punch in two more letters to correctly spell "you" ain't the same bag either, homes (as I have just demonstrated). Really, what is so hard about typing correctly? You don't have to be Hemingway, but at least place commas and take the effort to correctly spell such basic words as "oh," "be," and "are." And since you mention respecting a place's customs, proper grammar (or at least semi-proper) is ANN's custom. Respect it, abide by it, and quit putting up a fight because you can't get away with habitual laziness.
The problem here is that a phone is not a typing device. It's a speaking device. As such, the typing portion is only halfway functional, and serves very little genuine purpose other than to provide an extra "toy" to entice people to buy the phone. If you have to send someone a message with a cell phone, call them, and if you have to text message them to keep it covert, then they're probably in a place they shouldn't have their cell on at in the first place. |
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PlayBoi
Posts: 119 Location: Cali |
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What can I say...I love sturing the pot. Nothing wrong with friendly descussion on the finer more important things in life  No, but really I just wanted to see why its important to some of the people on here, thats all. I mean the better you understand where they are coming from the more you can grow yourself and be better about the situation.
oh and Cookie not to be an ass but its not really a study just a simple internet joke. And Nagisa I wont bother responding to your post because really we dont have anymore to discuss on tha issue I learned what I needed to and you got to call me an idiot again, so I guess we both win. And, unlikely you, I'll learn from what you wrote and not try to break it down in an attempt to always be right. I'm sure oneday when your sitting in your rocker alone you'll refelect and relize how much time you've wasted in trying to persuade people on your beliefs. I really hope stuff like this doesnt cause you to loss sleep at night. |
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Emerje
Posts: 7390 Location: Maine |
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Yep, they're rules:
Emerje |
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Godaistudios
Posts: 2075 Location: Albuquerque, NM (the land of entrapment) |
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Wow, the more Playboi gets defensive, the worse his spelling, punctuation, and grammar gets as well. Do you always lash out at somebody once you've argued yourself into a corner like that?
Frankly, I'm disappointed in my own level of grammar. I get frustrated with myself when I make simple mistakes. I strive to be better than I am, especially when it comes to written communication. I find it ironic that I seem to care more about this when my use of grammar appears to be demonstratively better than yours. Ultimately, I think the point of it all can be summed up with relative ease. The more you wish to stress your point about something, the more respect you will gain when you come across as being intelligent about it. You seeming bent on having us lower our expectations on grammar because you are so bad at it comes across as some kind of bad joke. If your grammar was excellent, you might be able to convey your desires to ease up on grammar use as having some merit. I can't help but be amused at the irony of it all. |
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