Forum - View topicFan service: Is it necessary?
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walw6pK4Alo
 Posts: 9322 |
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All I'm hearing from Fear Ghoul now is "BAWWWWWW NOT ALL ANIME IS HIGHBROW INTELLECTUAL-MASTURBATION BAAAWWW" No, no it's not. And it never has been. Sure good shows come and go, but what really sells and keeps the industry alive and thriving are repetitive dumb shows that are guilty pleasures the fans devour. If you don't like it, don't watch the shows. But don't say they shouldn't exist simply because they clash with your tastes. All this stuff about artistic credibility, baw, anime will never be considered the same as other forms of simply because it is animated, and animation always brings to mind "for children" despite what some artists try to do.
If anime tires you because of gratuitous fanservice, find another form of entertainment, because it's not going to change anytime soon. Hell, even Kino being a girl in Kino's Journey could be considered fanservice simply because she's suddenly considered a loli. In Legend of the Galactic Heroes, Reinhard being a bishounen can be considered fanservice. If you can't look beyond stuff like that, then you're out of luck. |
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Ikari1
 Posts: 531 Location: London |
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As much as I disagree with fear ghoul on many counts, I will say that when I saw this scene he is refering to in lucky star, it was not hard to come to the conclusion he came to. I'm not a complete pervert in that I dont see sex in every thing i watch. I do however have this annoying habit of anylising everything i see.
Now that I've re watched the scene in question I now remember watching this for the first time and I also felt that, intentional or not that scene is far from completely pure and innocent. That scene made my eyebrows rise when I saw it. I dismissed it as being a piss take of some form as someone else mentioned on here. I think it's slightly wrong to accuse fear ghoul of having sex on the mind when that scene does nothing to help it's self. I noticed it as being suggestive and i will certainly challange anyone that turns around and tells me that I've got a sick mind. I've asked for opinions from 3 separate freinds and heaven help me, my mother; sending them the clip over msn and asking them to tell me what they thought of it. I didn't mention what the context was that the scene was being discussed in but they all without fail said that it was more than suggestive. If this was intentional or not is not the point but it's not right to call someone sick minded when theres plenty of so called ' normal' people not including myself that have come to the same conclusion. My 3 opinions are in no way definative evidence but i felt that it was easy to misread that scene. Apart from this, I still think lucky star was a good show and that it was largely devoid of fanservice. |
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daxomni
 Posts: 2650 Location: Somewhere else. |
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How on earth is Kino loli-related? Don't sully such a wonderful series with pointless conjecture unless you can back it up with something tangible. One thing I can’t understand is why on earth fan service would ever be "necessary?" How much fan service was present back in the early 1980's? I certainly don't recall tons of panty shots and yuri/yowii themes back then. I think fan service is an artificial construct meant to satisfy Japanese otaku/wota groups. They apparently want bizarre sexual innuendo so they get it. I'm not anti-service, but the number of series that handle service well are very few and far between in my view. Fan service is a distraction when it's not handled well, and I would personally prefer that it be toned down a bit from recent levels |
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RangFlash
Posts: 24 |
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I'm wondering the same thing. Saying Kino is loli fan service is like saying a random schoolgirl in a uniform walking down the street is school uniform fetish fan service. If there's nothing there to begin with, and nothing was intended by the creator, then by definition it's not fan service. I think some people just turn it into fan service in their minds. |
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Ikari1
Posts: 531 Location: London |
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And here in lies the problem....the actual definition of fanservice. Please dont start on the school uniforms.  
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7991 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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Some random thoughts to nobody in particular.
Disliking and blaming fanservice is like hating the hammer you just smashed your own hand with. Good or bad it's just a tool and it's all in the skill at which you use it. No sense getting worked up at fanservice when it's the wielder of the tool (not even the show itself) to blame (the person who felt it was neccessary to add it) if you don't like what you're watching and really feel the need to point fingers. With that hammer as a tool you can build an elegant, practical, artistic looking house, or a real ramshackle, useless, piece of garbage. Fanservice is neither good or bad it's how you execute it. |
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Elfen12
 Posts: 479 Location: Bay Area |
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Greetings
Not to split any hairs here or anything and please... do correct me if i happen to be wrong here, but... since this thread is about fan service, we're supposed to express our opinions about it... whether or not we like it or dislike it, whether or not we think its necessary or unnecessary. We have the freedom to say that we dislike it, and we give our reasons end of story. So really, you could call anything a tool, that doesn't mean anyone is wrong for disliking it. There is sense getting worked up about something one doens't like, if they have strong enough feeligns towards it. Whats the wrong in that? I would very much like to hear what the wrong is in that. One can think a tool is either good or bad. As long as we stay in control and accept our opinions then everything is all good, for the most part. So i believe that it is okay to think something is good or bad, and that its not senseless to think that. Then ...
Anything that exists one can call it good or bad, its how the world works. Some views can be rather illogical to other opposing people, but we can make those expressions. You say that its neither good nor bad its how you execute it. Well one may not like how they "execute it" therefore that person woudln't like fan service... especially if that execution comes up more and more to a point at which thats all you're seeing of it; It being executed in that manner more often than not. I believe that there isnt' a problem in dislikign or liking anything, such as fan service, becuase anything can be liked or dislike, materialistically or hypothetically. I happen to be one of the ones that dislikes it... just cause someone else may like it or has an opinion that somewhat opposes what i think, doens't mean that its senseless to think the opposite. I respect your opinion but i think that my opinion isn't senseless. -Elfen12- |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6895 Location: Kazune City |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18348 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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That question was answered earlier in the thread: it's "necessary" when it's the focus of the anime, or when the anime wouldn't be worth watching without it. Really, though, most fan service is, by its nature, gratuitous. As even Fear Ghoul has said (and yeah, I don't think I needed to be told that BP is your favorite series given that name  ), if nudity and sex are in some way intrinsic to the context or the content, then they aren't truly fan service. It's (usually) extra flavor added on to make a show more marketable and enticing to its target audience. It's no different than sticking gratuitous nudity into horror films just for the sake of spicing them up further - and that has been done regularly since at least the early '80s in live-action cinema - so why should it matter that the anime which do that are primarily targeted at hard-core otaku?
This I won't disagree with. Although I generally appreciate fan service, I'm not a fan of panty-flashing, and even I have my tolerance level elsewhere. And while I don't think that anime fan service is any different from gratuitous nudity and sexiness in American TV and cinema (or anywhere else around the world, for that matter), it might also be worth pointing out that Japan is one of the world's most sexually repressed countries. A survey of developed countries done a few years ago pegged Japan as dead last in terms of average yearly sexual activity amongst adults, which has contributed to a vast and highly intricate sex industry and the rampant presence of fetishes; panty shot are so popular in anime because, well, it's practically a national male fetish. Same with maid costumes. That's why erotic games and manga are quite popular in Japan but very rare in the U.S., and may have a lot to do with the frequency of rape in hentai titles, something that generally wouldn't be tolerated in the American adult industry. Viewers from other countries are certainly welcome to look on fan service targeted at "horny, girlfriendless otaku" with disdain, but it does help fill a vicarious need that isn't getting met otherwise. Since non-Japanese aren't the target audience for most anime, complaining about it is pointless. Just accept it, ignore the examples you don't like, and move on with your anime viewing. That's what I do when I'm not watching something for review purposes. |
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Kruszer
Posts: 7991 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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Opinions aren't really the issue I brought up if you read what I wrote again. What I'm trying to say is that it's fine to dislike the messege but foolish to shoot the messenger (the messege being "fanservice" and the messenger being the series or film) for bringing you a message you don't like. EX: It's dumb in my opinion, to shoot down an entire series for the sole aspect that it has fanservice in it, when it may have other good qualities to it which you do like. Liking it less, yes, but dismissing it outright, no. Maybe that's the completist in me talking, though. Some people have different tastes I realize, but for me it usually takes more than one reason for me to drop something, usually like two or three. Although, I personally stand by by opinion that's it's just a tool for story telling and attention grabing that really depends on how it's implimented. I've seen series where I did like how it was used and series where I didn't. For me it depends on whether or not I find it funny and provocative or lame and/or overly crude. Last edited by Kruszer on Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ikari1
Posts: 531 Location: London |
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To be honest I dont know enough about japanese culture as I would like to so I have refrianed from talking about the way in which anime and fanservice are predominanlty aimed at japanaese audiences that enjoy fanservice more than western audiences.This is one of the reason I've been banging on about looking at these topics with an open mind or looking at the bigger picture. We as western audiences arn't the target audience and we as the western audience are not the people who spend the most money on anime so to be honest we dont have much right in the first place to complain. These companies are giving the fans what they ask for or other wise they wouldnt be breaking even. Fanservice is not the end of anime as we know it and it is very easy to avoid, move on or deal with in anime. This is one reason why I have voiced my objections to people making blanket comments on how unnessesary fanservice is. Fan service whilst seemingly unnessary to maybe western audiences is a main theme to some japanese audiences. Anime, to western audiences is a niche, different and interesting media because it entertains views and themes that are quite different to what the usual western shows and entertainment will present or even allow to be presented to us. Fanservice in anime is one of those parts of japanese culture that makes anime interesting and different for me so I wont ever say that it is unnessary or ask for it to be toned down. I dont have the right in the first place. Is it not enough that we are able to share in another cultures popular entertainment without complaining about something as trivial as a bit of panty flashing? Dean Last edited by Ikari1 on Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Elfen12
Posts: 479 Location: Bay Area |
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Ah i see what you mean... my bad i sort of read one thign and interperted somethign else hah... but yes i can see where you're coming from. I now happen to agree with you on the fact that just becuase anime may have fan service that it isn't so great to just drop it becuase of that one thing... afterall there are many elements to anime. I've only had one case when i've not been able to look past the fan service, but it wasn't totaly that, it was more the character and the Moe + Fan service = Not so Elfen Twelvey. And with that i shall end this post. -Elfen12- |
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einhorn303
 Posts: 1180 |
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These are two illustrations of Kino done by the official series artist and printed in books, of her in a school mizugi and buruma...two of the most popular lolicon fetish costumes. And there exists plenty fanart and doujinshi of Kino naked, having sex, etc. Plus there's the official light novel that recasts Kino as a regular school girl...there's plenty of implied sexual appeal in Kino no Tabi, and the fact that she's a cute, flat-chested (DFC, pettanko) girl. |
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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Ahaha, all you're really saying is that Rule 34 applies to anything. We knew that already. True, there is plenty of official and unofficial, serious and not-so-serious, extraneous art produced in connection with any popular anime. None of this has any real bearing on the anime itself -- rather, it is simply the result of fertile imaginations picking up a popular story and running with it. I've seen Superman pornography, some of it by official artists who worked on the series. Does that make the Man of Steel a pornographic icon? Well, yes, of course it does. That's how stories work -- they mutate and broaden, if they have any life left in them. When they stop changing, they die and are forgotten. But does it make Superman a pornographic story, in itself? Of course not. - abunai Rule 34 also implies that someone, somewhere, is sexually stimulated by pictures of Ikari Gendo. Ew. |
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Ktimene's Lover
 Posts: 2242 Location: Glendale, AZ (Proudly living in the desert) |
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Fanservice/ecchi being necessary depends on the consumer's opinion. Like people said, sex sells.
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