Forum - View topicThe DISCUSSION Thread, Part 1: Society's Perception of Anime
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Empyrical
 Posts: 84 Location: Everywhere you're not |
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This thread is meant to be a platform for intellectual discussion on anime and its perception by the general populous.
If you have nothing intelligent to say, don't say it. Warning: These opinions are aimed at the general image of mainstream society - more specifically, parenting; not what you think your definition of "society" is. I am sick of people (mainly the 32+ demographic) thinking that Anime is still "occult," even though it is pretty much everywhere these days. I am also sick of anime being considered either an "adult" or "child's" form of entertainment (depending on who you are speaking to), simply because there is adult themed anime being produced (read: hentai), and kids shows like Yu-gi-Oh, Pokemon, and DBZ [edited]. I am also sick of conservative Christian magazines bashing anime as a whole, but then giving positive reviews to Spirited Away. The Adult Swim disclaimer combined with the relative cleanliness of Toonami only furthers confusion among parents. Granted that Adult Swim is highly popular with the 18-31 male demographic, the mere title "Adult Swim" tricks parents into thinking that all anime is for adults, since "Adult" is typically used in context with adult things. Are we really that influenced by the media? Have parents lost all sense of rationale? Why is it that more people know what La Blue Girl is than what X is? The last time I was discussing X with a friend, an adult nearby thought we were talking about porn. Look beyond the cover, people. It is reasons like this that parents detest anime as a whole. It seems society's perception of cartoons is that they must be G rated. That is most certainly not the case. Are we really that conservative? Last time I checked, we were mostly liberal. Certain anime gets very popular in mainstream entertainment; I shall use Cowboy Bebop as a prime example. Granted that these occurences are anomalies, they are still an important part of the perception of anime by society as a whole. If only we could get more good anime on US shores, and cross-generation titles (like Spirited Away), then maybe, just maybe, we would be better recieved by society. In closing, I would like to say that anime is gradually becoming widely accepted, albeit at a slow rate. Anime, to me, seems like the stockmarket. We have all this interest in a particular fad (DBZ, YGO, Pokemon; it eventually subsides), but we are narrow-minded and will not look outside of what is given to us. Why? |
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Ian
 Posts: 149 Location: Thaxton, VA |
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In response to the above:
The reason I think parents are confused about anime is because it was introduced asa childish entertainment form, but suddenly became an adults entertainment form with little forewarning. It probably isn't true that mosr parents consider all cartoons to be G-PG considering such American cartoons such as Bevis and Butt-Head, The Simpsons, South Park, Daria, King of the Hill etc, rule the prime-time slots. However, I have it in my mind that maybe parents dont really stop to consider the content of an animated piece unless the content is evident eg; La Blue Girl. Parents have an easier time with Live action movies with the ratings, but a lot of the ratings for anime are really off. I mean Photon is listed as 12+ when it should be listed as 17+ for sexual comedy,situations and suggestion, where as Trigun is listed as 15+ when it is a much more viable choice for the 12+ rating. Now for my own perceptions into society:PS: Forgive me for any misspellings. Societies view isn't really just one view, it's a bunch of them. And none will ever change, only decrease or increase in followers. There are a whole spectrum of views on anime in American society, from an entertainment media, an artistic media, cartoons, a pass-time to a time-waster. Anime will be viewed as each of these, but it seems to me that, as of late, anime has grown more and more acceptable as an entertainment form than just cartoons. The simple fact that America has an Anime Network is proof of that. Anime will be a "niche" or a "cult" for a while, until this niche expands so much it is as impossible to escape as reality TV. |
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Nagisa
Moderator
 Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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I'm just going to hit each point in the order presented. I apologize if this post seems disjointed.
Speaking purely from personal experience, I have not encountered much of this supposed narrow-mindedness concerning anime. I don't know if it's because I have not actively sought it out or because the people that complain about it tend to exaggerate the supposed "issue." It just hasn't seemed like much of a problem to me, especially when you look at the fact that anime has noticeably grown in popularity despite them, and seems set to continue on that path. One should also note that most of the actual organized groups that put out all these "evil, slanderous" reports are themselves a very vocal minority with a limited reader/viewer base. Do you really think groups like Jerry Falwell's little flock have the power to topple an entire multi-million dollar industry that just continues to gain ground with each passing year? As misleading as some would say the "Adult Swim" title may be, it really needs it to stay alive. Given the general public's perception of Cartoon Network as a children's channel (and the fact that they had faithfully lived up to that distinction from their inception up until the birth of AS), had Adult Swim not been clearly marked as not for the little ones' eyes, that vocal minority of moral obsessives would have been pounding down Cartoon Network's door for "corrupting our nation's youth by tainting children's shows with filth," or somesuch. The fact it's called Adult Swim gives those people no real room to argue; it's for grownups, kids shouldn't watch it anyway. The media is a powerful tool. It can make the smallest minority seem as big as a small nation, and this perhaps is also where the "parents are irrational about anime" idea comes from. Small, uptight, "moral crusader" parent groups raise an issue with anything that coflicts with their clean & sober little world, and news groups follow these people around like lost little puppies because they usually bring big ratings. Though they aren't typically taken seriously by the majority, they attract viewers regardless. Though I admit I'm not the most politically-savvy person around, where are you getting the impression that the country is mostly liberal? Last I checked, Bush's approval rating was above 50%, which would indicate otherwise. Of course, given the strong liberal slant of the media (going back to that power I mentioned), I could see where that conclusion would stem from. I could be wrong, though. As a whole, I don't think society views anime as "evil" or as "just kiddy shows," but rather that vocal minority I keep referencing only makes it appear so. The vast majority, by my experience, either just sees it as "that thing" and lacks any real opinion one way or another, or they've never heard of it. |
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Daimonwrath
 Posts: 133 |
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Hm... well I have seen discussions like these before, and to sum it all up I have found 5 lessons on the misconceptions of anime.
I for one have become null to it all, so here you go. http://www.animeinfo.org/animeu/socl125-l1.html 
D.W. |
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Empyrical
Posts: 84 Location: Everywhere you're not |
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Svgly OT; I apologize in advance.
Nagisa: The reason I say the media is liberal is because it is; conservative media (i.e. Fox) is hard to find. Go to Drudgereport.com for some good conservative media. I also highly reccomend Hannity and Colmes. Bush's approval ratings are under 50%; they're more around 47-48 if I remember correctly. Also, approval ratings have nothing to do with the majority political affiliation of society. The "liberal media," as it is often referred to, feeds us their information the way they want it (not really the way they want it, but rather what they want to show us). Take Kerry's dug up comment on military records from '92. I saw it on drudgereport and yet have never seen it on a liberal-associated site (Reuters) or my local newspaper (which also happens to be liberal). Why? Who knows. As for Adult Swim: It is a great title for the block, but it conflicts too much with the other platform they show anime on: Toonami. Also, the word "Adult" on a CARTOON Network (cartoons being widely accepted as "for kids") can also stir up bad feelings. Also, regarding the Christian thing: They are a powerful force; do not underestimate them. They have strong ties in political offices and lobbying groups. With all the controversy over Janet Jackson's breast, you never know what could happen. |
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Nagisa
Moderator
Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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Aside from one parent complaining about the TV rating given to FLCL, I've never heard any complaints, however. And the aforementioned "it says ADULT in the title" argument was, to my memory, what put that one down rather quickly.
They've complained & lobbied against various heavy metal groups for years now, but it's done almost nothing to shut them down. Manson's still touring, and Ozzy's as big as he ever was. Anime is still a very under-the-radar thing anyway, even for them. It only comes up under "slow news day" circumstances by what I've seen, and the outrage over it never lasts long. |
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lianncoop
Past ANN Contributor
 Posts: 1705 Location: Indiana |
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I kinda just wonder why you're so eager to "conform" everyone into accepting "anime." I think that anime is expanding at a comfortable rate. I mean, at least it's growing and not dying, ya know. Parents will be parents about anything, not just weird cartoons. There will always be someone who has "their say" on things. Yeah, this didn't come out as intellegent sounding as I'd hoped. Oh well.
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Empyrical
Posts: 84 Location: Everywhere you're not |
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When I speak of lobbying groups speaking out, it's a little but different than it was when they were lobbying Ozzy.
It's more like how far will stations push the envelope before thing get out of hand? I mean, they allowed a naked butt to appear on RK and FLCL (which was a girl; even if only for a brief moment), and I believe Comedy Central showed breast on South Park (they really push the envelope, though, so I will take this as an abberation). Also, if Disney does accept this bid from Comcast, the anime network's future is in limbo. With DisneyCast joined as a single corporate entity, and Comcast's pledge that they will "restore Disney to its former glory," they may eliminate anime altogether from any of its media outlets (including ONDemand) to support the "traditional" animation that Disney produces. Whether that will happen is still in question, but it's not too far-fetched. Also, with all of this Janet controversy, cable networks will want to top that spectacle with something of their own. Janet became the most popular search in the history of the internet, and if some cable network could top that, it would easily draw a tremendous amount of attention. This, in turn, would lead to (if they don't do this soon) harsh FCC restrictions on what can and cannot be shown, and with that whole porn-covers-over-the-manga deal on the front page a while back, upping the editing standards for anime and all animation is not out of the question. |
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SuperOnizuka
 Posts: 421 Location: When I look At the World- New Jersey |
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I don't think that explains it completely. If you look at the culture of the US. and the culture of Japan, Anime/cartoons is seen differently by parents because of the different mediums that they were raised with. Sure comics by Marvel didn't start till the 50's (or around there), and many parents of kids today herald from 50's and up, but the most major form of entertainment wasn't cartoons. It was movies, novels, theater, and music. That is what most American parents was raised on, for the most part. So being that their forms of entertainment was not mainly on cartoons, or graphic art, the parents are a little confused with this new medium, known as Anime. Japan is entirely different. Their media or focus on entertainment, in tradition was the Noh, Bunraku, and Kabuki theater. The dramas and comedies led to the creation of graphic novels. My history is fuzzy so I may be a tad bit, or more, inaccurate. The focus on graphic novels bloomed out of those three theater types and their form of art. And that became one of the more prominent forms of entertainment, social commentary, and art for the Japanese. Cartoons or Anime is more accepted in the modern culture of Japan. Just look and you would see in a Japanese train station, at least one worker reading Manga while waiting to get to work. Taking this into consideration, it is obvious the parents of the US would be confused and worrisome about Anime. Especially since they see the worst case scenarios about Anime mostly, or the other extreme. Who could blame them? We are a consumer society where we are constantly working just to make ends meet, and not have much time for ourselves. |
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Nagisa
Moderator
Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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Cable TV is able to get away with more than network is. The Janet Jackson controversy is so big mostly because the Superbowl is a "family" event on network TV. Had it been on cable, there wouldn't be so much outcry (I've seen some pretty raunchy material on IFC, BBC America, Comedy Central, & that wretched hole that is Spike TV, all of which has gone without so much as a single ruffled feather from the FCC).
It's still far-fetched, however. With anime growing in popularity, for Comcast to drop support is to deny themselves profit. That's bad business. There's nothing that says they can't rebuild Disney while still supporting anime at the same time.
As I said, basic cable's been doing stunts far beyond the Janet Jackson mess for years without so much as an audible whisper of complaint from the FCC. There might be a problem if network television tried to top the Janet stunt, but what anime beyond Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh!, and other FOX Kids fare is even on network TV? |
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Dilandau
 Posts: 525 Location: Tea House |
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Obviously, there is one over-used proplem that 'may' contribute to this 'misunderstanding' of anime. It is animation, NOT a cartoon. Animation is a medium, cartoon is a classification.
But, I do agree with Nagisa that I really do not believe this mis-perception to be of any real downfall. Parents/polititions/religious groups and everyone else will argue against anything that they either do not understand, or it sits 'against' their perception of the 'perfect' world. I say its their loss. The future must be made with an open mind. Let them cry if they have nothing better to do, I'll buy anime/manga anyway and tell them how great it was. As far as Disney/com bringing down an iron foot on anime...I don't think so. They will not drop Miyazaki's titles. Nor will it make any difference to those that seek to buy anime. I think (assume) that a large portion of US fans order our anime, or at least did years ago when it wasn't popular. Fans that want their toys will get them regardless if their church/parents/mayor/cable company/etc 'approve' of it or not. I've heard more evil views about corrupt/perverted Disney than I have of anime in general. You can find some sort of anime/manga selection from most general merchandise stores/video stores/book stores, multiple channels that air anime, a handful of magazines, dozens of on-line US-based anime stores. There is nothing impeding the growth of anime/manga. |
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king_micah
 Posts: 994 Location: OSU |
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Eh, I have had people complain about anime. Then I show them Grave until they get teary and ask me to turn it off. I did that to my mother, now she is watching Miyazaki and finally understanding her student's work. (She is an art teacher and routinely deals with students making fan art for anime, comics, and fantasy.)
As for Comcast, I finally understand why my cable price is so high. I think they stand to be a powerful force, but this may be frowned on by regulators, due to the network affiliations of Disney. |
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haze-chan
Posts: 33 Location: University Park, PA |
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Empyrical, there's a simple reason why people make generalizations like the ones you mentioned.
Lack of knowledge. People hear of one or two titles then proceed to make really poor, and at times offensive generalizations about the genre. Actually, a better word would be ignorance because generalizations like the ones you mentioned are exactly that...completely ignorant. Honestly, when it comes to people like that, I don't become a missionary and try to "convert" them or any of that stuff. I just leave them be. There's no way that you'll change their minds and get rid of their ignorance. |
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Vigilante024
 Posts: 578 Location: back. but not really. |
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Culturally, it is easier for parents to tell which American animated shows are more appropriate since such shows are organized and classified in such a way that they can tell (i.e. children's shows are on children's channels and such) but with anime it can be alittle confusing since they may see anime as a genre of "cartoons" and do not know what it is since it can be found on several channels that are otherwise unrelated to each other. It is the way anime is exposed to some people that they develop such misconceptions.
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gohanfan
Posts: 2 Location: ....... |
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Im going to try and not sound stupid
i think the biggest misconception is that since anime is a "cartoon" that it must be for little kids. When in fact it's almost always the opposite. Sure some of them have been made for kids, but for the most part, they are for older more mature people. Now, here in america we have shows like, average joe, where 1(count'em 1) tries to woe the one man of her dreams by dating multiple. Now tell my if im mistaken, but can't that be considered polygimie?(spelled wrong, very sorry) Yet parents and the medai make anime out to be the bad guys. If you look hard you will see that most kiddie animes, have a very positive meaning and actually make kids think, use their brains. I had to do a paper on this recently. Some anime supporters had done a studie that went like this. They asked kids which they like to do more. Watch tv or read a book? Naturally the kids picked watching tv. When asked why they said because it's easier for them to understand. So then they showed the kids an episode of the worlds most favorite and stupid cartoon character SPONGEBOB SQUARPANTS. After watching the kids where asked what they thought. 75% where not able to recall what happened for most of the time. They kids where then showed an episode of POKEMON. When asked what they thought of it, the showed much more interest in explaining what they had seen and where eager to do so. Almost 90% of the children where able to recall everything that had happened and did it to the "T". Now, im not saying the test is over,because they wanted to try one more thing. Remember the part about reading? Well here all the results about that. The kids where given a normal american book to read( I belive it was something like a nancy drew book) When asked what the kids thought of the book(after reading it aloud) the kids said they have enjoyed the book very much and could recall about 85% of what had happened. Then they were asked to read 1 volume of a One piece manga(which i can't stand by the way) After completeing it they where astounded as to how much the children had enjoyed reading it and being able to hear the voices in their heads as they all imagined what each character actually sounds like acts like(keep in mind, these kids are in the 5th grade) , so they are in all actuacality using more brain power to imagin not only visuals, but sights and sounds. Now, again im not saying manga and anime is all powerful, but i am saying that the tests don't lie. Now as far as the adult anime is concerned. If the anime range of people is 18 to 31 yr old males, how did they find out about it in the first place? They had to watch something, correct? I think these people who say bad things about anime is for some crazy reason they saw one episode of lve hina(most likely enjoyed it) and where pressured into signing that anime petition that has been going around for yrs, by spouses or girlfriends.AS for the female population who watches anime. i don't think they have a problem with the "bad "parts of anime. Women are more naturally mature then men. Now as for parents, as well know that is an entirely different species, their oppinion goes like this,(basically it's what i have come up with) " i think anime is bad, it shows nudity and sex stuff" Well here is my reply to that "Would you rather have your child take a glimpse of a bad show(because if they were good parents it wouldn't be on anyway right?  ) and now you think it's porn. I would rather have my child accidently see something bad then watch a live man and women, breathnig hard, moaning and having sex. Now which would you rather have your child see. And guess what? That example I used for the live one, do you know what that was? It was a music video to a rap artist that just about everyone has heard at one time or another( it was "p.diddy)
well, that is what I think. I hope I didn't sound too stupid 
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