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ANN_Lynzee
ANN Executive Editor
Joined: 02 May 2011
Posts: 3063
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2025 12:28 pm
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Test
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Fluwm
Joined: 28 Jul 2009
Posts: 1089
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2025 12:35 pm
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As far behind as I am on the LAD series, I'm sorely tempted to jump right into the pirate game (god only knows when I'll get to LAD8, so I'm hoping it's a fairly stand-alone narrative). All the ship combat stuff looks really fantastic, and is exactly the kind of iteration I'd been hoping to see on the Black Flag formula that just... never happened.
I just really hope it's not all condensed and action-focused. One of my favorite parts of these sorts of games is just... exploring the open sea, being one lone ship out in the water, crashing through the waves. Or happening into a thunderstorm that really gets the water roiling -- always delightful.
I also find it really interesting that this is basically our second "Japanese Black Flag" releasing in roughly the same 6-month period, after Ys X, and I guess we're due for a third not too far from now, with Ys X-2, assuming it brings back the ship stuff.
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AiddonValentine
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 2367
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2025 1:40 pm
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-Poke-
All is functioning it seems. Anyway, time for vidya discussion.
Ah, Mighty No. 9, a masterclass is how NOT to do a project, especially one billed as a spiritual successor to Mega Man. I think the thing that gets me about Inafune's departure is that he left before Legends 3 was ever greenlit and then had the gall to play victim. And to top it all off, the guy essentially pissed in the well on his way out, locking Mega Man off to CAPCOM lest he encourage fan ire. Well, that didn't turn out so well. To top it all off, Inafune's dreams of making a multimedia franchise blew up in his face because he was putting the cart before the horse. Now he gets nothing. Meanwhile, CAPCOM has long-since course-corrected and moved past that weird obsession with pandering to the West with the numbers to back it up.
Speaking of which, apparently Like a Dragon has gone full G Gundam on us and I'm all for it. Giving us another pirate game is also a plus after Skull and Bones became another Ubisoft fiasco.
Now for me to go back to the latest Xenoblade X trailer to dissect things
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oilers2007
Joined: 23 Sep 2022
Posts: 132
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2025 7:22 pm
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AiddonValentine wrote: | Meanwhile, CAPCOM has long-since course-corrected and moved past that weird obsession with pandering to the West with the numbers to back it up. |
I dunno their games still feel pretty westernized to me. Resident Evil and Street Fighter don't really feel fully back to their classic Japanese style of output of the older games. Maybe that's just Modern Gaming though. If they ever do a new Mega Man or Breath of Fire it'd be really interesting to see.
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Nate148
Joined: 24 May 2012
Posts: 523
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2025 8:14 pm
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being fair Resident Evil was western in the first place
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An Unchosen One
Joined: 07 Dec 2024
Posts: 32
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2025 11:14 pm
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Microsoft and Sony had nothing to do with Bayonetta beyond it being on their platforms; Sega were the ones who pulled the funding for 2, with word being that it was because they wanted to focus on established franchises rather than take risks on new(er) ones like Platinum's.
oilers2007 wrote: | I dunno their games still feel pretty westernized to me. Resident Evil and Street Fighter don't really feel fully back to their classic Japanese style of output of the older games. Maybe that's just Modern Gaming though. If they ever do a new Mega Man or Breath of Fire it'd be really interesting to see. |
It's definitely more to do with modern gaming than westernization. The RE series since 7 has been more serious than the B-movie feel of the older games because that kind of tone is seen as more marketable, while SF maintains some weirdness from its roots while moving to more traditional storytelling and trying to make the cast at least a little more "contemporary" for the same reason. Basically, they've just shifted more to the AAA method of appealing to the lowest common denominator.
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FinalVentCard
ANN Reviewer
Joined: 28 Oct 2018
Posts: 667
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Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2025 1:35 am
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Fluwm wrote: | As far behind as I am on the LAD series, I'm sorely tempted to jump right into the pirate game (god only knows when I'll get to LAD8, so I'm hoping it's a fairly stand-alone narrative). All the ship combat stuff looks really fantastic, and is exactly the kind of iteration I'd been hoping to see on the Black Flag formula that just... never happened. |
I was never a huge Assassin's Creed fan but given that Black Flag's sailing was basically one big spin-off of AC3's sailing, I figured that would've been incentive plenty to focus on sailing mechanics. Like, imagine a mini-game being so good they spin it off into its own dedicated entry! As it is, about the only other game I can think of that is as dedicated to sailing a la Black Flag is Sea of Thieves, which still feels a bit too weighted in reality for all that. It's a fun time, but not the same, is the vibe I'm getting.
Fluwm wrote: |
I just really hope it's not all condensed and action-focused. One of my favorite parts of these sorts of games is just... exploring the open sea, being one lone ship out in the water, crashing through the waves. Or happening into a thunderstorm that really gets the water roiling -- always delightful. |
Yeah, this is the stuff that made Wind Waker so much fun. You didn't even need to be sailing towards any place in particular, it was fun to just pick a direction and keep going. Of course, you had stuff like the Ghost Ship, the kraken, the little jumping barrels that woulds how up every now and then...
Hm. I wonder if sailing counts as an extension to the obsession over fishing that so many Japanese devs have...
An Unchosen One wrote: |
oilers2007 wrote: | I dunno their games still feel pretty westernized to me. Resident Evil and Street Fighter don't really feel fully back to their classic Japanese style of output of the older games. Maybe that's just Modern Gaming though. If they ever do a new Mega Man or Breath of Fire it'd be really interesting to see. |
It's definitely more to do with modern gaming than westernization. The RE series since 7 has been more serious than the B-movie feel of the older games because that kind of tone is seen as more marketable, while SF maintains some weirdness from its roots while moving to more traditional storytelling and trying to make the cast at least a little more "contemporary" for the same reason. Basically, they've just shifted more to the AAA method of appealing to the lowest common denominator. |
I don't think that one is necessarily because of AAA aesthetics being flattened, I think it's just modern aesthetics in general. Like, Street Fighter still has a very obvious style all its own; if anything, it's a modern take on Street Fighter 3's New York-inspired urban aesthetic ("Look at all my haters, yeah I'm makin' 'em mad!") And I definitely miss the George Romero take on zombies that the older Resident Evils boasted, but I think that that one isn't entirely dependent on gaming's flattened aesthetics. That's just how people want their zombies; 28 Days Later popularized fast zombies. Past Shaun of the Dead, I struggle to think of anything else that keeps the old Romero-mold around (especially if it's not for parody).
I dunno, aesthetics change in response to the changing zeitgeist in culture at large. It's hard to pin this on just the AAA gaming sector, I think. Even if it was the factor, the simple matter is that artists change and evolve over time. Oilers brings up Breath of Fire, and that's a great example: Tatsuya Yoshikawa's art doesn't look like what it used to with Breath of Fire 2. Akiman's art doesn't look like how it used to in the 90s. Even Ken Sugimori left behind the watercolors and ramrod-straight character poses ages ago.
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AiddonValentine
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 2367
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Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2025 2:28 am
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FinalVentCard wrote: |
I don't think that one is necessarily because of AAA aesthetics being flattened, I think it's just modern aesthetics in general. Like, Street Fighter still has a very obvious style all its own; if anything, it's a modern take on Street Fighter 3's New York-inspired urban aesthetic ("Look at all my haters, yeah I'm makin' 'em mad!") And I definitely miss the George Romero take on zombies that the older Resident Evils boasted, but I think that that one isn't entirely dependent on gaming's flattened aesthetics. That's just how people want their zombies; 28 Days Later popularized fast zombies. Past Shaun of the Dead, I struggle to think of anything else that keeps the old Romero-mold around (especially if it's not for parody). |
With Resident Evil in particular, I reject the assumption they're rejecting the B-movie feel when RE7 owes a lot to hillbilly horror, especially The Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Village is a sendup of the Universal Horror monsters. Even horror itself has changed. In particular it's also difficult to claim "Westernization' entirely when Monster Hunter Rise is Japanese as hell right down to the ninja village and Wilds has decided to make the blacksmith character a gyaru.
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FinalVentCard
ANN Reviewer
Joined: 28 Oct 2018
Posts: 667
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Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2025 2:49 am
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AiddonValentine wrote: |
FinalVentCard wrote: |
I don't think that one is necessarily because of AAA aesthetics being flattened, I think it's just modern aesthetics in general. Like, Street Fighter still has a very obvious style all its own; if anything, it's a modern take on Street Fighter 3's New York-inspired urban aesthetic ("Look at all my haters, yeah I'm makin' 'em mad!") And I definitely miss the George Romero take on zombies that the older Resident Evils boasted, but I think that that one isn't entirely dependent on gaming's flattened aesthetics. That's just how people want their zombies; 28 Days Later popularized fast zombies. Past Shaun of the Dead, I struggle to think of anything else that keeps the old Romero-mold around (especially if it's not for parody). |
With Resident Evil in particular, I reject the assumption they're rejecting the B-movie feel when RE7 owes a lot to hillbilly horror, especially The Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Village is a sendup of the Universal Horror monsters. Even horror itself has changed. In particular it's also difficult to claim "Westernization' entirely when Monster Hunter Rise is Japanese as hell right down to the ninja village and Wilds has decided to make the blacksmith character a gyaru. |
... Y'know, it shouldn't have taken me so long to make the connection between Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Resident Evil 7, but when you spell it out like that...
But yeah, you raise a lot of great points. Stuff doesn't need a Tales Of...-esque art style to count as Japanese. MHW's gyaru blacksmith is a great example. I remember talking to Carl Horn at Kumoricon last November about how a lot of mangaka are actively considering how to appeal to American readers and the concern over manga and anime "losing" the vague thing that made so many of us gravitate towards it in the first place, but on the other hand, when you have stuff like Majima being a pirate with a henshin sequence I don't think there's much to worry about.
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Doubleclouder
Joined: 07 Jan 2024
Posts: 85
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Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2025 5:28 am
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Nate148 wrote: | being fair Resident Evil was western in the first place |
I think "western" in this case doesn't mean "set in a western setting with western characters" but in terms of design and presentation. The series took a notable shift after 6 in prioritizing first person shooter perspective and being more serious and grounded which carried over to the remakes of the older games. It also coincided with those 2020 leaks of Capcom internal documents that showed they were targeting a more global market with their games and adhering to a global standard now with being more conscious of what kinds of content and material they put in their games. So no more skimpy outfits or fanservice in Resident Evil like they used to do since it's frowned upon in western markets. It's also why any plans for remakes of 5 and Code Veronica will be very interesting to see because there's no chance they're keeping certain elements of Code Veronica's story and even back when 5 initially released it was seen as controversial in the west for racial issues. Capcom was pretty dismissive of the criticism of the game back then, with Jun Takeuchi even doing a bit of "you will be ashamed of your words and deeds" bit long before Kojima did by saying the whole thing will blow over and people will move on from it, but it's very unlikely they'll be so flippant and dismissive of western critics this time around if they end up doing a remake of 5.
I would also guess it also depends on the franchise itself and the specific market the game is aiming for. Monster Hunter still retaining some Japanese elements and appeal makes sense given it's massive popularity in Japan. And mobile games like Rockman X DiVE, Teppen, and Street Fighter Duel kind of have to lean into the sexy since it's what gacha games are known for - especially ones made in and for Chinese markets.
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Southkaio
Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 397
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Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2025 7:15 am
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I am still waiting for Mighty No. 9's return. And... Please, no jokes!
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An Unchosen One
Joined: 07 Dec 2024
Posts: 32
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Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2025 9:27 am
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FinalVentCard wrote: | I don't think that one is necessarily because of AAA aesthetics being flattened, I think it's just modern aesthetics in general. Like, Street Fighter still has a very obvious style all its own; if anything, it's a modern take on Street Fighter 3's New York-inspired urban aesthetic ("Look at all my haters, yeah I'm makin' 'em mad!") And I definitely miss the George Romero take on zombies that the older Resident Evils boasted, but I think that that one isn't entirely dependent on gaming's flattened aesthetics. That's just how people want their zombies; 28 Days Later popularized fast zombies. Past Shaun of the Dead, I struggle to think of anything else that keeps the old Romero-mold around (especially if it's not for parody).
I dunno, aesthetics change in response to the changing zeitgeist in culture at large. It's hard to pin this on just the AAA gaming sector, I think. Even if it was the factor, the simple matter is that artists change and evolve over time. Oilers brings up Breath of Fire, and that's a great example: Tatsuya Yoshikawa's art doesn't look like what it used to with Breath of Fire 2. Akiman's art doesn't look like how it used to in the 90s. Even Ken Sugimori left behind the watercolors and ramrod-straight character poses ages ago. |
I don't mean aesthetics; I didn't even mention the looks of the recent games, but their tone. RE used to be cheesy to the point that it felt like Capcom was leaning into that, while SF seemed like they were just going with whatever ideas the team liked while keeping things just cohesive enough that you could see, say, Dhalsim and Balrog being in the same world. Nowadays, though, Capcom has started leaning toward a more grim take on the former and…I guess something of a modern anime approach with the latter? in order to appeal to a broader audience in line with their overall shift to AAA production.
AiddonValentine wrote: | With Resident Evil in particular, I reject the assumption they're rejecting the B-movie feel when RE7 owes a lot to hillbilly horror, especially The Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Village is a sendup of the Universal Horror monsters. Even horror itself has changed. In particular it's also difficult to claim "Westernization' entirely when Monster Hunter Rise is Japanese as hell right down to the ninja village and Wilds has decided to make the blacksmith character a gyaru. |
You can certainly see those influences, but they're still closer to more modern horror hits like Alien Isolation than they are B-movies in game form. Even if you compare them directly to the movies you mention, there's a very distinct difference in tone and vibe, and I'd say that while older RE games aren't similar in terms of story, they are closer in how they feel.
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LinkTSwordmaster
Joined: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 567
Location: PA / USA
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Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2025 10:16 am
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It's been long enough that I think it can finally be said unironically: objectively speaking, Mighty No.9 is a fun game. It is not what was advertised. It certainly would have looked better had it been animated in 2D. When I play it I have it spruced up with RTX enhancements and backer-exclusives unlocked. No I did not back the game. If you can catch it on sale and are a Mega Man X fan, it is a fun time. If you want the best in the genre - go play 30XX, but I truly, truly feel like if Mighty No.9 had wound up with even half of the sort of long-lasting care and attention that Bloodstained did, people wouldn't be giving it as hard of a time.
Red Ash: Magicicada is another casualty. Studio 4C actually was hosting it officially & with subtitles on their YouTube page a while back in HiDef, I'm not sure why I don't see it there now. It's a wonderful little film, and it's a travesty+testament to just how toxic Inafune became that Red Ash was instantly DoA - it could have made for an amazing anime project in another place & time.
And speaking of toxic personalities killing franchises, yoish, I'm likely never going to pick up another Bayonetta title again. Forever burned into my soul is the whiplash of TheSphereHunter gushing positively about Bayonetta 1 & 2, followed by the insane changeup of the main character and the meltdown her VO actress had online as the third game released on an inferior (performance-wise for this particular game) console. The Bayonetta games should have never been stuck on just the Nintendo systems in the first place.
That said, I'm thankful that I can look forward to the Xenoblade X release and only marginally loath the fact that it's coming out during a time when Nintendo is getting stupid again and blocking a Neptunia game. All the weird junk they slipped into Xenoblade 2 on the Switch and yet due to poor timing and lazy dev work, we're likely to end up with another Tokyo Mirage Sessions take on Xenoblade X that might have been avoided if it had released earlier in the Switch's life cycle. I'm just happy to have it at all at this point, but it just feels like "there's always something" now any time I want to try and be excited for a new release. I'm happy too that I can at least go back, tune out all of the weird garbage that happened to Mighty No.9 and Magicicada, and enjoy them for what they are.
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Greed1914
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 4684
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Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2025 11:08 am
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The FGO thing is interesting. I don't really feel sorry for a gacha game like that, but at the same time, people had to expect the company would do something. I think the bigger problem will be around enforcing any sort of in-game debt. Those people didn't exactly buy those currencies on credit. My guess is that at some point, in-debt accounts will just be banned.
An Unchosen One wrote: | Microsoft and Sony had nothing to do with Bayonetta beyond it being on their platforms; Sega were the ones who pulled the funding for 2, with word being that it was because they wanted to focus on established franchises rather than take risks on new(er) ones like Platinum's.
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Yeah, the Nintendo exclusivity came more out of Bayo 2 fitting in with the type of game Nintendo wanted at the time, and it at least had some name recognition to make it less risky. Exclusivity was part of the deal, but Sega still owns the rights to it, which is why the first game remains available outside of Nintendo.
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FishLion
Joined: 24 Jan 2024
Posts: 287
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Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2025 11:27 am
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I'm glad I'm not the only one who enjoyed AC:BF, I have been a pirate fan game fan all the way back to Sid Meier's Pirates. I really enjoyed the ship parts of Black Flag but it has that issue I have with many Assassin's Creed games where the moment to moment gameplay doesn't live up to concept. If a game has gameplay as repetitive as Assassin's Creed, you really need to push the environments and sense of exploration to make it an enjoyable experience in the long run. I feel like Mashima's brand of frenetic action and the general zaniness of the series is the perfect way to make sure seafaring doesn't get old.
Part of why I enjoyed Wind Waker is the sailing has an element of mystery, many islands would be nothing, but enough would be really unique that the sense of adventure really left. I think the series' wild stories could serve a similar function for pirate Mashima, but now I am also thinking how cool another ship-centric Zelda would be and I hope they do one of those again at some point.
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