Forum - View topicThis Week in Anime - When Your Fav Anime Couple is Problematic
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John the Dark Lord
Posts: 267 |
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And they still have a healthier relationship than Saya and Fuminori! Seriously though, twisting around the concepts of love and heroism is very much Urobuchi's thing. He likes to take the positive traits associated with heroes and put them into a horrible situation to show how things that sound beautiful and inspiring can lead to pain and madness. Even before the movie, Sayaka's story already showed this thesis, as did the story of the Fate/Zero she is compared the most, Kariya Matou. To put it in another way, Urobuchi's work do agree that love is powerful. But they also point out that "power" is something neutral, and the morality lies in how it's used. "The seed is a baby plant, after all. If it does its best, it can turn even a desert into a garden. Maybe the little seed will decide to try its hardest. Maybe it will decide to grow and multiply, so that it can turn the whole desert into a field of dandelions. What do you think can give that dandelion seed the strength to do so? All it needs - is to be loved by just one person in the whole desert." Saya, 2003 "It is the pinnacle of all human emotion. More passionate than hope, far deeper than despair. Love" Homura Akemi, 2013. |
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Akcoll99
Posts: 285 |
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I don't normally ship male/yaoi couples but I was totally rooting for Albert to end up with Peppo in Gankutsuou...
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Nipasu
 Posts: 131 |
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Since when is Quiche (the actual spelling of his name) a sweet dessert? |
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harminia
 Posts: 2064 Location: australia |
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That's what I came here to ask... I couldn't focus on the rest of the article because I started thinking about quiches being a dessert. |
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Shay Guy
 Posts: 2352 |
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Throughout the TV series, Kyubey is of course Homura's enemy, and so is Walpurgisnacht -- but there's a case to be made that her most important enemy is neither of these.
Homura Akemi's greatest enemy was always Madoka Kaname. Way back in 2011 -- while Madoka was airing, coincidentally enough -- I saw a commentary on Evangelion that included the line "Kaworu likes Shinji's heart like delicate glass, which is another way of saying that he'd like to place Shinji on a shelf." That's what Homura wants. For much of the show, Madoka is timid, self-doubting, self-deprecating -- but she's drawn to the idea of being a magical girl. She sees it as her calling, almost. And when we see her as one in the first part of episode 10, she's confident, self-assured, self-actualized. She knows who she is; she's where she wants to be, doing what she wants to do. And when the time comes, she gives her life to save her city with a smile. That's the girl Homura fell in love with. And that's the girl Homura spends the entire show trying to stop Madoka from becoming. Madoka is a deeply self-sacrificing girl, and Homura cannot accept that. She's never cared about Madoka's desires, about her personal growth, or even seeing her live long enough to drink with her mom. She wants Madoka, she wants to have her nearby -- and if that meant thwarting her will, even putting her in a cage, so be it. Homura's ideal version of Madoka is alive, and might as well be dead. In the final episode, Homura weeps, because she has failed more spectacularly than she could've ever imagined. She accepts it only because she has no other choice. So when Rebellion gives her an alternative? Of course she takes it. Who wouldn't she fight for the prize that is Madoka Kaname? Nobody, not even Madoka Kaname. This was always who Homura was. Madoka and Homura love each other deeply, and they bring out the worst in each other. None of us, of course, know how Walpurgisnacht: Rising will end, but for a long time now, my idea has been that Sayaka (my personal favorite meguca) gets fed up and manages to take their place atop the Law of Cycles, and the universe is rewritten one last time so that while Madoka and Homura still more or less remember everything, they're now ordinary young women without even the capacity to become magical girls. And the final scene is the two of them having a quiet, awkward, but honest conversation -- at a train station, or on a park bench, or something, maybe with Madoka mentioning that she has a girlfriend now -- then politely exchanging well-wishes and walking out of each other's lives for good. It feels to me like the closest thing this story could have to a happy ending. …So, on another note, any Qualia the Purple fans in this thread? Last edited by Shay Guy on Wed Feb 14, 2024 12:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Minos_Kurumada
Posts: 1194 |
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I once read an study:
It placed women and male to speak with the opposite sex in mini dates, the people who they spoke to were divided in 2 groups: One group would act interested and friendly towards the test subject, the other group would act distant/indifferent/aggressive towards the test subject, but would soften over the course of the conversation. The subjects would later be asked whom they liked more: the result were that most people felt those who were unlikeable at the beginning but then softened as more "dateable". The reason given was that they felt there was a progress, thus, this study proved the tsundere effect. People simply prefer couples that have problems at the beginning, since you can trace a developing route. Its kinda hard to to point out exactly when Deku and Uraraca fall for each other and the development its kinda foggy, but it's quite easy to see when Gajeel and Levy start their relationship and how it evolves. Guess which one of those 2 couples began with one character beating the other half dead. |
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Hellsoldier
 Posts: 815 Location: Porto,Portugal,Europe,Earth,Sol |
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Me mate. And boy, the commonalities with Madoka Magica are not lost on me. The moment Manabu spoiler[kills a version of herself who gave up trying to save Yukari, you know s*** hit the Psycho-Toxic-Despair Route]. |
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harminia
Posts: 2064 Location: australia |
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Gotta say, I was not expecting that book to take that path when I first bought it... |
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Arale Kurashiki
Posts: 781 |
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I'm glad someone else understands this. I've always been scared that when they continue the story they'll give it a Madohomu ending and that's just so twisted to me. Walking away from someone important to you is, in its own way, unimaginably painful, but at the very least Homura needs grounding with other people who aren't Madoka if she is to ever have any hope of being her own person. |
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Joe Mello
 Posts: 2317 Location: Online Terminal |
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That's certainly a reading, but I can't help but think of a post I saw earlier today about how the idea of sacrificing oneself for the sake of love is actually a tragic rejection of the love they are receiving and such an act of self-harm should not be idolized. |
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Shay Guy
Posts: 2352 |
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I think the only PMMM character who "sacrifices herself for the sake of love" is Sayaka. It's not the same as Madoka's inclination to sacrifice herself to save a larger group of people -- the city she lives in, or countless magical girls she's never met. |
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Mikan-box Glasses-kun
 Posts: 88 |
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Here! Man that was a good book, was not expecting just how wild and gay it was. Honestly my impression of the ending parts was that it felt like spoiler[an almost retroactive commentary on the Madoka/Penguindrum-style ending.] |
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tintor2
 Posts: 2180 |
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Man. To this day, I'm mindblown by the visuals of Gankutsuou.
When I read problematic couple, I instantly thought of Clamp; Cardcaptor Sakura due to the whole teacher and student stuff. Subaru and Seishiro spoiler[also have it bad for some reason even if the latter appears to respond to his feelings after all during X] In the case of xxxHolic. Maybe the approach of Vanitas and Jeanne was not funny from certain points of view even if they did fall in love with each other after all. |
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scanlines
 Posts: 69 Location: in time out for bad behavior |
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I've never understood shipping, but it is the basis of doujins and fan fiction. It can get creative writers working and creating interesting scenarios. Granted, it's not what the original creator chose... but there's no harm in having fun with your preferred pairing. The "problematic" aspect also doesn't make sense. You're just adding your own ideas on top of preexisting fiction, so it seems like a way to justify liking something others would consider morally dubious by others.At the end of the day, it's fiction and a way to hone your creative writing skills. But it can crossover into the mainstream. I know that the "Fifty Shades" series are pretty much Twilight fan fiction, so it can lead to bigger things. Maybe even localizing.
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Ggultra2764
 Subscriber Posts: 3980 Location: New York state. |
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I suppose you could fit Koi Kaze into this conversation. While the series tastefully and believably handles the developments of Koshiro and Nanoka's relationship, the fact it's focused on a relationship that is both incestuous with the pair being siblings and having a large age gap with Koshiro in his late 20s and Nanoka being a high schooler is sure to ruffle enough feathers for those unaware of the title's premise.
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