Forum - View topicMalevolent Spirits: Mononogatari (TV) (w/ index).
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2969 |
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The dialogue at this point is more or less word for word from the source material. The subtitles weren't wrong, so I expect it's a matter of interpretation.
When the Sougenbi are "let off", it refers to the remnants as a whole (残党). Not the three encountered in this episode. If the three Sougenbi encountered in this episode were the ones being monitored and let off, there would be no need to ask Aogi to guide them to the hideout to search for clues because the Saenome would already know where they are and ask the strike team to go after them directly. How the "connivance" works is remnants of the Sougenbi are kept under surveillance. The point being small-fry Tsukumogami who look to them as inspiration and wish to join their ranks would have to make a move, which the Saenome can track to some extent. That way if the Sougenbi amass manpower again after being suppressed the Saenome would have advance warning and make a preemptive strike if required. Since these three have been keeping out of sight for four years and cannot fulfil their purpose, it stands to reason they're not under surveillance. Rather, their former underlings are. For proof, note Taiju's sons are beating up the Sougenbi's familiars in the streets since they do not know where the main targets are and are relying on the investigation team to look for leads. The familiars are being beaten up because the Saenome knew where to look for them, these are the ones under surveillance. As for Yuu's monologue, she finds it surprising that the Sougenbi who are aware they are being surveilled have made the first move despite being aware of the consequences. This does not refer to the Three Cadres, it refers to the Sougenbi remnants as a whole. The three of them in hiding specifically stated they used Kunado Hyouma as the pretext necessary to return to the open to start the fight they began years ago. It has nothing to do with them being directly watched, since as described above it's not likely. As for the final piece of information which casual viewers have missed out, refer to Ougi's spiel in episode 7. He was commissioned by various parties, human and Tsukumogami, to question Kunado Hyouma on his residence at the Nagatsukis. When he turned in his report, there were three parties which were not satisfied with his answer. One of the parties was the Sougenbi. That is why Hikikiri in this episode declared Hyouma's residency to be a breach of the unspoken agreement, providing the pretext required for their attacks. |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 24165 |
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@ Harleyquin - thank you for taking the time to lay that out. If I can indulge your patience a little more, I have a question for you. If Yu's monologue was referring to the Sogenbi who are aware they are being surveilled - for our purposes, let's refer to them as The Remnants - what move did they make that broke the unspoken law of connivance? Did some of them assist the Three Cadres in the attack on the saemone? Again, my interpretation was that it was ONLY the Three Cadres who had broken the unspoken law but that could be my mistake.
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2969 |
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There is ambiguity in Yuu's monologue, so I'll break it down based on my understanding.
The rule of connivance (Kadamori rule): I keep you under watch, in exchange you have freedom of movement and you do not attack humans or Saenome keeping you under surveillance. The unspoken rule (Botan rule): Do not get involved with Nagatsuki Botan. The Sougenbi have broken the Kadamori rule because they believe Hyouma and the Nagatsuki members have broken the Botan rule. |
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Edjwald
 Posts: 1588 |
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There's an old story - I think I read about it in an S.M. Stirling book - where some Chinese peasants were farming, and their crops were destroyed by an early frost or locusts or something. And some of the peasants picked up their axes and scythes and such and began marching. "Where are you going?" one of the farmers asked. "What's the penalty for rebellion?" "Death." "And what's the penalty for not paying your taxes?" "Death." "We might as well join the rebellion because there's no way we're going to be able to pay the taxes." The situation you're describing sort of makes sense if you assume that the human keepers are outnumbered, and new tsukumogami could generate in the shadows around them at any time, making it even harder to predict their actual numbers or contain them. They apparently had a huge conflict and came to some kind of truce, but the Sogenbi weren't the only tsukumogami around . Maybe if it was perceived that the...onmyouji?...were going around sealing tsukumogami without some sort of due process even if the spirits seemed threatening, it might have provoked outright war from all sides? |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 24165 |
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Thanks to the above exchanges, I think I have arrived at an explanation that answers my original question: why did the Kadomori not make a maximum effort to hunt down the Three Cadres given that they were originally implements of torture and thus highly likely to be a clear and present danger to humans?
There obviously was a big fight four years ago and the main strength of the Sogenbi was destroyed. The Three Cadres went to ground. The Kadomori tried and failed to find them. A certain amount of time passed and there was no evidence that the Three Cadres were harming humans. Given that and given that hunting tsukumogami is an inherently risky undertaking, the Kadomori decided there was an unspoken law in place that if the Three Cadres didn't harm anybody, no heroic effort would be made to hunt them down. Then of course Hyouma shows up in Kyoto and throws the whole unspoken law into chaos. Yep, that all works for me. |
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Edjwald
Posts: 1588 |
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Episode 10
I'm really enjoying these lull before the storm episodes. This anime does both the slice of life and the slice of...er...blades...really well IMHO. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 24165 |
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Agreed. An enjoyable, light-hearted episode. It was cute how excited the tsukumogami got about the prospect of a hotpot. Also funny to see that Hyoma isn't as impervious to embarrassment over romantic matters as it first seemed.
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2969 |
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#10
When Kadomori Taiju talks about free will in the Tsukumogami, you couldn't find a better contrast between the Sougenbi and the Nagatsuki Six. Kadomori may treat the "family" as a bomb waiting to go off, but the Nagatsuki are exactly what he intended the Sougenbi to be; not slavishly devoted to the intent of their occupying vessels and living life in the mundane world like humans would. Ordinarily, the Sougenbi would not be permitted to exist as the vessels they inhabited were too dangerous, however Kadomori made an exception to the Sougenbi in general because of the connivance rule explained last episode. I still think it wasn't intended for those cadres in particular to be let off, but once they slipped the net Kadomori simply settled on the next best solution and kept a close eye on them with the usual proviso. Once they broke it on account of Kunato Hyouma, it was enough for Kadomori Taiju to eliminate the Sougenbi once and for all. Kadomori Tsubaki is also dangerous in her own right, not only because of what Yuu has said. Those conversant with the source material will understand this better, but one thing which viewers might miss is that there's a fundamental disconnect between Kunato Hyouma and Tsubaki regarding the former's deceased siblings and both sides are not aware of it as things stand. If Yuu had any doubts as to Hyouma's suitability, the aftermath of the raid and the hot pot episode indicate these doubts have been dispelled. Contrast her behaviour at the storehouse with what she would have done earlier in the season, even if she doesn't admit it she's not any different from the rest of her peers in dealing with Hyouma. The hot pot episode: It's not just filler for the action to come. A note on the subtitles: 三回生 is the Kansai way of saying 三年生, which makes sense as Botan is studying at a university in Kyoto. It's an excuse for Haori to prod the two of them along, since the Nagatsuki haven't forgotten their purpose despite their relatively carefree everyday lives. It's also the first official instance of Haori (ab)using her powers to finish her task. About time they pointed out Hyouma's speech tic, I seriously doubt casual viewers not conversant with the source material or the Japanese language would have picked this up as it's been there since the start but not highlighted until this episode. It does ram home the contrast between the Sougenbi and the Nagatsuki in the way Tsukumogami residing in the mundane world spend their time, and how Hyouma for all his single-mindedness has never really understood the difference until now after spending one season in the Nagatsuki household. As an added bonus, the animators have found a way to subtly combine something in the source material which had to be explained in an afterword into one continuous segment, so props to them for that. Next episode should be fun for casual viewers, as this week is more comedy-focused and saved on the animation budget. Next week is more like last week's episode, but I'll leave it to casual viewers to see for themselves. Not much airtime remaining though, so unless the animators decided on a second season beforehand the stopping point for this adaptation is more or less decided. Hopefully they don't make any serious errors in finishing it. |
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Edjwald
Posts: 1588 |
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Not to take away from the Nagatsuki six, but they did have it easier in some respects, since their original vessels were all about love and forming deep bonds. Kind of like a coffee po---(cough). Anyway, circumstances also put them in a situation where they were exposed to Botan long term. For some reason, I'm thinking of that line where Jessica Rabbit says, "I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way."
She reminds me of a cat. Cute, but fully capable of torturing a mouse for fun.
For me, the telltale moment was her reluctant smile when Hyouma asked her if he really came across as an unlikely lecher.
And the first time I recall her using her Tsukumogami powers occurred in this episode as well. So she stretches? Unravels? And then uses her transformed limbs to bind or strangle? I assumed the last two episodes would be one big smackdown leading to (hopefully) some kind of partial closure. But if it's more personal interaction, bring it on. |
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b-dragon
Posts: 498 |
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I've little to add that hasn't been said before- but that Haori has certainly become my favorite of the six. This solidified somewhere between the step-by-step instructions to Botan, the use of powers to avoid the crowd, and the preference for whiskey.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 24165 |
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Ah, b-dragon, b-dragon, b-dragon... *shakes head sadly* Wow. Where do I even begin? Well, I suppose I should begin with the obvious: Yu is Best Girl.
Now, look, I get it: you're human. Humans make mistakes. So I don't want to make a federal case out of this, okay? So what we need from you now is a 10,000 word written apology for MASSIVELY disrespecting Yu. Then as a tangible sign of your contrition, I suggest you make a modest contribution to the charity of your choice (no more than a couple of thousand dollars) and end off with a sincere pledge that you will never make another stunning mistake like this ever again. Then we can all go on with our lives. Heck, it's not like you wrote something SUPER INSANE like how if you were a tsukumogami, you'd probably be a coffee maker or something. Yeesh. ... You know, when I look back and see how reasonable I was in this post, it makes me shake my head that some people actually have the nutty idea that I take anime too seriously. Again, yeesh. |
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Edjwald
Posts: 1588 |
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Don't sweat it, B-dragon. It's pretty clear that if Blood ever becomes a tsukumogami, his vessel will be some kind of merch that looks like Yu. As to what kind of object, I'm sure it will be highly inflatable. I mean, debatable. Sorry, Freudian typo
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 24165 |
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Speaking of which... I have a birthday coming up soon, so I suppose if there was anybody out there who was intensely curious as to what is on my wishlist, I'd just casually mention that there is a Yu body pillow that I think would go smashingly with my bedroom decor. I trust I don't have to say anything more?
eta: by the way, I was a bit surprised at Kagami's ability to age herself up (demonstrated once the booze came out). I remember in the previous episode, Ushiki had their appearance altered from being beefy to being more slender but my impression was that was a result of battle as opposed to a voluntary change of appearance. I wonder if all tsukumogami can change their appearance to either look younger or older as the situation requires. |
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Edjwald
Posts: 1588 |
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Dunno. She's a mirror right? Could be some kind of offshoot of that too. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 24165 |
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That was my thought, too. But then Ushiki's changed appearance - despite not being a voluntary choice, apparently - kind of muddies the waters a bit.
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