Forum - View topicINTEREST: Animator Supporters Project Posts Toshio Okada's Criticisms of Production Committee System
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TarsTarkas
 Posts: 5991 Location: Virginia, United States |
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Interesting tidbit on the control of the funding process. Seems American companies shouldn't be buying into an existing production committees, but rather create their own.
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Minos_Kurumada
Posts: 1215 |
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Sounds like the usual bureaucratic nightmare everything in Japan suffers with.
Whenever I read how Japan works it actually makes my country sound efficient and I wonder how the heck they got rich, though, now that I think about it that speech in Blue Lock about why Japan is good in Baseball but not in Futbol explains it well. |
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Ermat_46
Posts: 747 Location: Philippines |
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Ridiculous comment. Crunchyroll tried to make their own cartoons like High Guardian Spice, Onyx Equinox. No. One. Liked. Them. |
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AsleepBySunset
Posts: 246 |
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That poster implied that crunchyroll produce anime which are then made in japan, it would be a multi-country coproduction. That said. No idea what they were thinking with HGS/OE, especially HGS. Its an adaption of Hiveworks original comic, which is garunteed to be shit. I generally don't know how an anime licencing company can be so detached from the anime fandom as to think HGS is what the anime fandom is asking for. People like anime with teenage angst elements like Deathnote. Anime about young teens and children fighting. Anime about hobbies like Bakuman. Iyashikei anime. Anime like Ghibli. Why produce something which could only appeal to steven universe fans? There are definitely gaps in the market. I want more "middle grade fantasy" adjacent anime like Kemono no Souja Erin and Deltora Quest, I also want more western-made fantasy animation too. I want more Iyashikei as well, stuff like a Ryuushika Ryuushika adaption would be nice, I want more adventure. I actually think the west could fill these gaps... but they don't. That's why people like avatar so much, it's the only thing which captures the anime-art style, albeit westernising it slightly, while also including a western-style fantasy plot. Even if I liked the premise of HGS the calart's artstyle would be too offputting to actually enjoy it (I think it looks bad, sorry), also the stoner joke in the name is ridiculous. I don't want to think about weedbros when I watch cartoons. |
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TarsTarkas
Posts: 5991 Location: Virginia, United States |
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Probably, but that doesn't disprove what I said, merely that Crunchyroll made bad choices. Mainly my comments were meant about control of the process, not the end product. According to the article, the biggest investor controls the budget and controls what the other investors put in. Not to mention, the controlling interest can divert money to other projects. If US companies are the controlling faction, they control the show's budget, and how everyone gets paid (which is what everyone is complaining about). I am not saying the US companies would wear a halo and pay everyone what they deserve, but at least they would have the authority to do so. As to what comes out of US companies making anime. If you are going to invest in Japanese anime, then make Japanese style anime, not American anime (not talking about cartoons). If you are just going to make American anime, then you don't need the Japanese. |
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RockSplash
Posts: 502 |
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Counterpoint. Hellsing Ultimate. Vampire Hunter D bloodlust. Trigun Stampede. Space Dandy. Devilman Crybaby. All of these series involved American companies and money(Geneon directly funded and pushed for Hellsing, while Adult Swim had Space Dandy launch first in America with a dub before Japan). These series were generally regarded well. |
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sharpied
Posts: 17 |
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Are you sure it's $180/key frame and not 180 yen? Having collected anime production artwork for years, depending on the anime and sequence, key frames usually appear every 2-5 frames. Assuming that the industry pays $90/key frame, 10 of those would net a key animator $900. |
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zunderdog24
 Posts: 362 |
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uhhh yeah, its a high level job position. Noob animators need to work a bit before they can reach that position. It should be obvious they should be payed well for their skill. |
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sharpied
Posts: 17 |
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I think you missed the point of my post. I was asking if the number quoted was correct as animators are complaining about low pay. If a key animator is being paid $90/key frame (which was a lowball figure according to the quoted rate of $180/key frame), drawing 10 would yield them $900 and 100 would be $9000. Let's say, in a one month period, a key animator draws 100 key frames (though they likely drew more). $9000/month is a high salary. I don't think many animators would complain about making roughly $100K/year. I'm well aware that it's a high level position. I've met several anime key animators and character designers over the years. |
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zunderdog24
Posts: 362 |
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Except 100 a month for one person is highly unlikely unless they work 24/7 for the whole month. Thats 3 solid key frames a day everyday, in which case yes it is a low amount. |
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Frog-kun
ANN Reviewer
 Posts: 118 |
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See for yourself on Animator Supporters' crowdfunding page: https://gogetfunding.com/the-new-anime-making-system-project-phase-2/ |
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zunderdog24
Posts: 362 |
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Sorry to reply again but I just cant get over your math. Lets say your everyday 12 episode anime has a generous 1 keyframe every second, thats 14400 key frames for a season. Now lets say the production has 10 key animators with each being assigned 1440 keyframes to complete in lets say.... 1 year of production. Thats 120 keyframes a month of non-stop work, so its basically the same statistics your using to calculate what their pay is while saying "I don't think many animators would complain about making roughly $100K/year." Now lets using some less generous figures. Same average 12 ep anime but now with an average of 3 keyframes every second (400kf an ep/4800kf a season). 25 key animators so 192kf each over the course of a year or 16kf a month. Now $90*16kf is $1440 a month or 17k a year or we can go with the cheaper salary the video suggested which was 180/4 making it $45*16kf = $720 a month and just to make the deal a bit sweeter lets say theyre also doing the same thing for 2 other productions so a total of $2160 or $25k a year for a high level job. Sounds great. |
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Beatdigga
 Posts: 4669 Location: New York |
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A few years ago, Netflix published a paper explaining why they felt this was necessary and outlining the difficulties of doing so. And while their track record is...mixed, the lessons the paper outlined have been noted by a lot of people. Crunchyroll's own screw-ups can't be held against the idea of circmventing production committees, especially when a lot of those disasters were made domestically with tiny budgets (not to mention it seems Sony has quietly mothballed the Originals line with their control over the majority of anime distribution). It's a case of shooting the message along with the messenger. |
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MarshalBanana
 Posts: 5538 |
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So it is a complex issue, but the main issue is that the foreign investment is increasing the amount of money going into each production, only the people who have been on the production comities for decades set a cap a long time ago to stop one person getting complete control, and as a result are instead using that excess money to fund more projects.
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matt78
Posts: 266 |
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The idea is sound it's just that they picked the wrong things to back. What I wish they would do is fund anime that was successful in the West but were never finished and have no real shot of getting finished by Japanese companies. An example would be Soul Eater. I'm sure everyone has a series or ten that they wish would get a rebooted with little hope of it actually happening. |
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