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Joined: 18 Nov 2022
Posts: 2
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Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 1:28 pm
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@TheSleepyMonkey
Ofc there are tons of shots where they use angles to capture the sense that they are using a camera, and some looks great. But the approach of film varies a lot. That's why it bothers me when people say it looks cinematic too, as cinematic and films can look tons of ways, n for me it doesn't say much. Chainsaw man shouldn't just look like film, but capture the essence of genre filmmaking too. Parts that doesn't borrow from genres will probably look great in anime, While I don't think they have or will manage that with stuff that does borrow. I Still feel like the director is holding back marking his stamp on the show. I want to walk out feeling like, oh yes, thats a ryu Nakayama work, like I'd do with Akiyuki shinbo or Yasuhiro Nakura (ep 21 of space dandy is awesome).
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JulieYBM
Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 209
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Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 1:37 pm
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Tanaka and Yoshihara's episodes are absolutely amazing and it blows my mind that we're comaring copying comic panels exactly to good filmmaking.
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Ralph Snackshi
Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 23
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Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 1:46 pm
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Lol this is like the time Paste Magazine published a rant from some guy who was like "I'm DONE with Final Fantasy man!" Like this belongs on reddit not a legit website that publishes news.
This kinda attitude toward adaptation is the reason I never read manga.
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NeverConvex
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Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 2471
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Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 2:03 pm
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Kicksville wrote: | I'm amazed someone immediately brought up an example that came to mind: The original Jojo's Bizarre Adventure OVA is not like the manga in a lot of ways, but it wrings something that is definitely there from it to create a unique cinematic version of Jojo that could only have been done in anime of the time.
It was disappointing to see people go back and scoff at it for not being exactly the same as the manga, like people seem to think the newer anime is. That sort of reaction admittedly makes me all the more wary of stuff like this. |
Man, I know I'm in the minority here, but I absolutely adored the first season or two of Jojo. I slowly stopped watching after the show became less overly grimdark and instead zanier and weirder, and I guess more like the manga, from what folks say. Inject the almost Beowulf v Grendel hyperseriousness of those first two seasons directly into my veins, friend.
Maybe it's no coincidence I also really dig this Chainsaw Man adaptation, especially for its mood and tone. The rest of the execution -- artwork, animation, CG, and such -- seems competent enough, but not good enough to make me love on it on their own. It's the atmosphere that has me grinning like an idiot throughout each episode.
Shame not everyone enjoys it as much, but that's taste for ya.
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Abraham Omosun
Joined: 05 Mar 2020
Posts: 158
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Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 2:36 pm
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FilthyCasual wrote: | It's a shame that the comparisons to action scenes in the anime don't include gifs; those would make it easier for the audience to draw their own comparisons and conclusions. |
This. I never understood comparing manga panels to still frames of animation since that is how it(manga)is meant to be viewed while removing any context for the animation (like movement and sound). Like the Power introduction comparison is missing the really well done walk cycle and arm movements she does. I am not a huge fan of the adaptation btw but the whole article just feels ranty if that makes sese
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CulturedTre
Joined: 04 Jul 2022
Posts: 12
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Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 2:43 pm
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I get that some readers see the author as being too critical. That’s fair. But it’s also fair to say the anime just hasn’t popped like the manga. It’s not bad at all, it’s quite enjoyable, but I think manga readers thought this anime would put Chainsaw Man in the same buzz stratosphere as early AOT.
I don’t really care about the buzz, but I will say the anime is too….clean? Plain? It feels like a really fun anime, but it doesn’t feel like Chainsaw Man if that makes sense.
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Everlasting Coconut
Joined: 22 Jul 2019
Posts: 314
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Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:40 pm
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I don't have that much knowledge about things like directing and panel composition and stuff like that, and I'm not cocky enough to argue against someone who clearly does, but man, I'd be lying if I said some of the things in this article didn't feel incredibly disingenuous. This particular paragraph, for example:
Quote: | Finally, and perhaps most importantly, the gory action feels less impactful—the movement is animated spectacularly, but the splatter (both of blood and kinetic linework) is missing. Take Power's introduction and first fight: scenes that are full of energy and life in the manga, but lack that kinetic buzz in the anime. Sure, things move smoothly, but Power introducing herself has significantly less oomph, and her falling hammer attack lacks the feeling of cutting through the air that Fujimoto's art exudes. In the anime, the vibe of the fight scenes generally feel the same as the vibe of the dialogue scenes—Denji's fight with the Bat Devil illustrates this as well—so they don't hit like the manga does. |
I don't know what to tell you. Each scene described here is chock-full of energy and fun in the anime, and I've watched so many reaction videos of people getting pumped up by Power's introduction, grossed out by the visceral mess that is the Bat/Leech Devil fight (James wrote up a great review about it here in ANN) and simply feeling the things that these scenes supposedly don't convey according to this article.
I guess I agree that it'd be nice if the anime used the neon colours from the manga covers, but other than that, I was very confused reading this article.
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#Droneku
Joined: 28 May 2022
Posts: 34
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Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:48 pm
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What I get from this is that if the anime has the climax of the fights in weirds colors, like in JOJO's, the anime would be good.
Honestly, I find the directorial decision fine, knowing that at the heart of CHAINSAW MAN exist an appreciation of all that is movies and schlock (which is heavily referenced in the OP).
But, I would also say that the manga only gets good after the Eternity Devil arc. So now we will see if the anime past the trial of fire.
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Gem-Bug
Joined: 10 Nov 2018
Posts: 1289
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Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 4:12 pm
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Everlasting Coconut wrote: | I don't know what to tell you. Each scene described here is chock-full of energy and fun in the anime, and I've watched so many reaction videos of people getting pumped up by Power's introduction, grossed out by the visceral mess that is the Bat/Leech Devil fight (James wrote up a great review about it here in ANN) and simply feeling the things that these scenes supposedly don't convey according to this article. |
One of my recent habits(hobbies?) over the six months or so has been watching those reaction-mashup videos for anime episodes after I've watched them. In particular, Chainsaw Man has been super fun in this regard. People are losing their shit and having a great time every. Episode. I don't understand this article; MAPPA is doing a great job.
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a_Bear_in_Bearcave
Joined: 14 Jan 2019
Posts: 536
Location: Poland
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Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 4:14 pm
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I find myself agreeing with the article, and I completely disagree that this is some "poorly written rant" that doesn't belong here. Anime is still good, great even, though I would expect that given the base material, but it definitely lacks the impact and style it could have, and it's fair to point that out. I agree that Power's entrance was not as cool as it felt in manga.
It's not like the aren't many people having the same impression, and writing them off as "anime is not like manga" is really disingenuous. I don't see why we can't have articles approaching the art with critical eye. In fact I'd want more of them, just like I liked the article describing how EX-ARM ended up so horribly.
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cyborgkiddo
Joined: 04 Jan 2018
Posts: 18
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Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 4:25 pm
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For me the anime feels a bit too grounded for something that is (in my opinion) very un-grounded. I love the comparison to MP100, that anime really takes the base laid down by ONE and expands on it while remaining faithful to the vibe of the manga. I feel like that brashness would have better served Chainsaw Man rather than the very realistic tone we're getting. Still love the anime, but some psychedelic stuff would be amazing to see here. And also jack the colour palette up like 100 notches.
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Boy Howdy
Joined: 18 Nov 2022
Posts: 24
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Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 4:29 pm
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Ralph Snackshi wrote: | Lol this is like the time Paste Magazine published a rant from some guy who was like "I'm DONE with Final Fantasy man!" Like this belongs on reddit not a legit website that publishes news.
This kinda attitude toward adaptation is the reason I never read manga. |
Gotta pad out the front page somehow!
Weird logic tho, people’s opinions on adapted work means you… won’t engage with source material? Even if, I dunno, said source material might be entertaining/meaningful on its own merits? Ahhh maybe you’re exaggerating! I hope so, anyway.
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AsleepBySunset
Joined: 07 Sep 2022
Posts: 238
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Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 4:54 pm
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CulturedTre wrote: | I get that some readers see the author as being too critical. That’s fair. But it’s also fair to say the anime just hasn’t popped like the manga. It’s not bad at all, it’s quite enjoyable, but I think manga readers thought this anime would put Chainsaw Man in the same buzz stratosphere as early AOT.
I don’t really care about the buzz, but I will say the anime is too….clean? Plain? It feels like a really fun anime, but it doesn’t feel like Chainsaw Man if that makes sense. |
While I haven't watched Chainsaw Man... I have a feeling the author feels the same way I do about Jujutsu Kaisen's anime (which is, funnily, by the exact same studio). Image you have a big cinematic adaption of Garflied, and you give it animation styled after Disney's Cinderella, and a tearjerking, heartfelt climax. No matter how good the classic disney style animation or tearjerker moments are... It doesn't make the final product better, it actually just makes the final product worse. You can't just expect a movie to be good because the parts, or even the sum of the parts are "good". You need to think about "does the colour palette match the feeling of the story", even if the colour palette looks like some beautiful renaissance artwork, if it doesn't match the feeling of the story, it will absolutely make the story worse. For example the yellow skin of all the 'caucasion' simpsons characters does match the feeling of The Simpsons, whereas if you took say, Clannad, and gave it the Simpson's colour palette, it would be a much worse experience, even though the colour palette of the Simpsons is fine in and of itself.
Jujutsu Kaisen had some "great" colour palettes, but they didn't capture the aspects of Jujutsu's story which made it good, I felt the overall feeling of the story was kind of about being an outcast angsty teen who was on some level dying or surrounded by death (its a bit loose in my memory), but the colour palettes didn't capture that feeling, sure individual frames may look "good" or "great", but they make the overall whole story worse. Imagine how you would feel if Garflied but with tearjerking moments and the animation of classic disney actually existed, that's a very extreme version of how I feel about MAPPA's work on Jujutsu Kaisen, its not hilariously ridiculous, its just subtly off in every single scene.
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Ralph Snackshi
Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 23
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Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 5:24 pm
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Boy Howdy wrote: |
Gotta pad out the front page somehow!
Weird logic tho, people’s opinions on adapted work means you… won’t engage with source material? Even if, I dunno, said source material might be entertaining/meaningful on its own merits? Ahhh maybe you’re exaggerating! I hope so, anyway. |
Yeah, I am exaggerating a little. I do like manga, its just that I get so tired hearing people say "oh the manga did this, the manga did that, the manga is better, etc," and disregarding the anime because of it that I get turned off from reading the manga as a result.
And I understand being disappointed when an adaptation misses the mark or doesn't retain things from the source material, be it the art style or parts of the story, but I can still appreciate that they operate in different ways and enjoy them in their own right. I dunno, I just wish more people could see it that way...Maybe they do and I've only been hearing the loudest, most annoying minority.
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BadNewsBlues
Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 6224
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Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2022 5:42 pm
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TheSleepyMonkey wrote: | So..... are rants just a thing in this website now? Because frankly the way this article was written just feels like one of those super long Twitter threads where it's just "the anime is not the manga, therefore it is bad". |
Weren’t you the same person complaining about the trailer for the remaining half of the Stone Ocean Anime spoiling stuff and the production values being mediocre to average and sucking big time?
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