Forum - View topicNEWS: ADV Head Says UK Issues May Be Due to Illegal Releases
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bakaShin
Posts: 102 |
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the rant is definitely inappropriate for such a person of his position.
we are not talking about a product that can appeal to everyone like a coke, pepsi, md, starbucks, iphone, ipod, etc. we are talking about a product with distinct art form filled with a lot, a lot of cultural references and specific use of language. you are going to have a hard time financing and expanding the business with such a narrow appeal. it will take much more effort and money trying to enter a foreign market and in making the changes necessary to produce a viable commodity and finding a way to market it to consumers that are not accustom to the product. I dont know much about the UK's taste in anime/manga but from what i read i can only assume that its not as large as the US and that since its more homogeneous that you really need to pick the right series to succeed. |
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Ryokosha
Posts: 107 Location: North Eastern United States |
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BluMeino
Posts: 65 |
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I can't say for show for most shows, are there are 20 every season and it's improbable for me to compare them all, but from what I've seen, animation seems to be the usual thing they change. Even if they did change jokes, again, it's probably not important to the show as a whole. So basically, no major changes are made usually.
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LiuXuande
Posts: 201 Location: Chicago |
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Without reading this topic, I'm going sum up this guy's quote as "WHUAH"
You know, all this time when I read forumgoers debates on fansubs, especially the anti-fs people who tout the illegality of it...I finally have decided to apply stuff I've learned as a business major, and that is: the responsibility is always with the supplier. Consumers of anime, just like consumers of anything, are fickle and you have to appeal to them. Anime companies' slow wait-it-out, do the same thing business strategy is not working, and they need to learn a lesson to see WHY people are watching fansubs, and how they can capitalize on that segment of market demand (potentially turning a black market segment into a profitable one...maybe even with a hint of "free"). Won't it be great if I can get a consulting job with a prominent anime-related company after I graduate and help fix this mess? Oh I wish...
Also I agree with this guy. And to add to it, it seems primarily in US and EU, these companies ignore the entire "underground" portion of the market. Just look at a purist's response to a dubbed anime advertisement! By shunning that group, the end result is almost to be expected. Last edited by LiuXuande on Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
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BluMeino
Posts: 65 |
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Would business also tell you that faster and free is better, even if sacrificing quality?
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LiuXuande
Posts: 201 Location: Chicago |
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Not necessarily, but it is a possible strategy.
Fast and free would appeal to one audience (all the fansub watchers out there, who are currently being ignored or scolded by anime companies) High quality would appeal to another (that segment of the market they're trying to reach out to now, with DVD sales) By doing both, if they can manage to afford it, they'll hit both segments of the market. Keep in mind that a free service is not necessarily "free". Think of how television, Google, and other such services remain, to an extent "free". |
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Ryokosha
Posts: 107 Location: North Eastern United States |
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The fault lay in marketing I think, P.T. Barnum proved a long time ago if you market things correctly people will pay you money to exit a place and do so happily thinking they are seeing "The Great Egress", and oddly never or rarely feel cheated... so if something isn't selling one thing that must always be checked and is seemingly being ignored in these cases is how the product is marketed.
fansubs have been marketed by word of mouth which is one of the most powerful (not to mention cheapest) marketing tools around, so again to all companies out there, follow the trends of what is being fansubbed find out why, find a way to use that marketing tool which already exists to market your own product and perhaps that will help to show that company ABC is now going with anime genre XYZ... and I think things would improve... to a point FUNi is doing this in their own way and as has been noted it is rather successful for them, why this has not caught on is beyond me. Last edited by Ryokosha on Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:37 am; edited 1 time in total |
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BluMeino
Posts: 65 |
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So here's my argument about a new trend. We can get 720p TV raws. That's about as high quality as you're going to need for flat-colored animation. I doubt DVDs could look better. So now we have some quality, speed, and somewhat free on one side.
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BluMeino
Posts: 65 |
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If they really did follow fansubbers and the shows the people watched, we can hope stuff like Night Wizard or Blue Drop won't get licensed. They will not sell. I'm mostly following last season's shows because they're all the most recent in memory and none are licensed. |
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Ryokosha
Posts: 107 Location: North Eastern United States |
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I don't mean titles persay but genres... and we cannot be sure what will and will not sell since whatever they are doing now is obviously not proving as successful as they would have hoped.
You are still missing marketing in your own example, quaility is here, somewhat free is there, but where is the marketing? |
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larinon
Posts: 992 Location: Midland, TX |
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International cable? Right. Because such a service will be relatively cheap compared to R1 anime DVDs? Let's see...essentially we would have every single show being licensed, at least the broadcast rights, for the destination countries. Certainly the studios that made these shows will want their royalties. Oh yes, and we'll have to pay some people to translate all of this as well, and edit, time, and so on. For each language. Surely such a service won't cost more than a few hundred dollars a month, right? If we're lucky? Oh, but you've already stated that you won't spend more than $60/year on anime. Hmm, quite a conundrum. The fact is, a lot of people just want a free lunch, and they're bending over backwards to try to justify their decision. Why not just support the industry? Why do we need all this song and dance of excuses? Some fans insist on being able to enjoy numerous different titles within a week of their original airing in Japan, yet scoff at the idea of actually paying for these shows at some point, or claim that they are not worth paying for at all. Does that not seem hypocritical to anyone else? I'm not saying you must buy every single series that you watched one episode of and stopped because you thought it sucked. No one does that. But if it's something you like, why not support it for crying out loud? It's voting with your dollar. It's saying "I liked this, please continue to make more things that I'll like." It's saying "You guys did a good job on this show, and I appreciate the work you did." I guess I'm just old-fashioned. |
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Joshua-Sensei
Posts: 20 |
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I swear this "Fansubbing is killing the industry debate" is getting more and more annoying as the news is released.
Yes fansubbing is hurting the industry a little, but high prices, letting series sit on their proverbial selves for year with out release, bad translation, poor marketing, among other things is hurting the industry even more. The blame lies "50-50" between downloaders and companies. The companies ignore fans crying out for releases, our cries for better dubbing, and cries for cheaper prices. I mean look at Bandai with Shigofumi and True Tears, I downloaded the first 2 episodes of each and loved them, but I will be damned if I am going to pay 39-49 dollars for a single volume that MAY have 3 episodes on it, that's high way robbery. At the same time downloaders are not innocent, yes there are those who buy the dvd releases after they watched a series (I include myself in that bracket), but there are those who would rather everything be free, and do not buy just download download download. Honestly it's going to come down to this: Can the industry adapt to the times? I wrote this in an earlier thread and I think this would help "save" the industry:
1.99 an episode, not a bad price, but 10-15 bucks an episode (in Bandai's case) or 5-10 bucks (In some of ADV's cases)?? The biggest reasons I download are 1. The series I download will most likely never see the light of day in America, and if they do I will go out and buy them, with no problem what so ever. 2. I want to watch my anime the way I want to watch it. I take my Ipod/zune/ insert random video player here, on trips, to work, everywhere, and yet I can't watch my anime (that I have bought) on them because of the format, fansubbs allow me the format I need to do this. 3. I don't feel like waiting 4+ years for a series to be released. Prime example of this is "Monster" it has been sitting on the proverbial self for 7 years, and is just now been said to be close to release. 4. America rips shows to pieces, One piece is a prime example, yes FUNI has it now but when 4kids had it, look at what it was... complete and utter garbage. It wasn't even the same anime that it was originally, and there are others that have been maimed just as bad. Fansubbs don't filter out things like that and release it to us in it's "purity" Recently though I have taken up buying imported DVD series from websites that sell 13 episode discs for about 18.95, that has only the Japanese "dub" and English subtitles. (and yes they are legit) This way I am supporting the anime industry, just perhaps not the American industry. This is what it comes down to... brass tax bottom line: The industry needs to catch up with the times, and realize what their fans want, and provide such, at reasonable prices, and stop licensing crap, and trying to sell it on a stick. Fans need to, if they down load a series go out and buy the series or the boxset, or download it from the website. I downloaded Black Blood Brothers fansubs, and I loved the series so much I selled out the 24.99 for the "legit" copies from Funi. Anime fans need to stop slinging this crap of "Well I hope you are happy, you have killed an industry." or "STFU, I can't afford it" and "The anime industry sucks" That will kill this art form faster than anything. The industry has some things it needs to address, so do fans. The real question is will either side be able to do this fast enough, or will they even be willing to do it at all? Only time will tell. |
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Mr Blister
Posts: 17 |
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Quoted for truth. What fansubbers are doing is illegal, not to mention downright immoral and disrespectful. But hey, as long as you get to see your shows, who gives a damn about people who actually possess the basic human decency to support the industy you leeches proclaim to love by actually - *gasp* - paying for their anime? |
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Akakori
Posts: 11 |
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Perhaps if ADV UK had expanded their UK catalogue more quickly, the 'fans' might not be getting their anime from illegal fire sharing sites. I got back into anime less than a year ago. I got into watching things on Youtube and then torrents. Soon feeling guilty I had a look at the catalogues of UK distributors and was thoroughly disappointed. The selection was minute compared to the US catalogue. On ADV's UK DVD shop currently, Azumanga Daioh is still the big release and how long has that been out for in the US?! I certainly remember seeing it at a convention 4 or 5 years ago. Chrono Crusade and FMA too. And worst of all that lamest of lame-mecha shows: Gravion (which I do have the series on 3 ADV DVDs - I never opened the packaging on 2 & 3 as 1 was so dire) is on the front page. The UK market is small: there's less fans here than Australia, which has a smaller total population! So obviously, releasing a product here requires even more risk than in the US. With a limited budget they can only select a few titles to release and must determine which will succeed the most. With just a small selection of titles, consumers who want other titles will import R1 DVDs, taking money out of the UK market and into the US. Others will turn to torrents. I strongly believe ADV UK has failed to hit the target with it's titles. I don't know what the perfect catalogue would be, but if ADV UK are to go down, it's they're own choices that have caused it. That, and the set up of international DVD regions that divides various English speaking countries - thus making more money for successful DVD franchises but hurts the weaker ones like anime... |
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Joshua-Sensei
Posts: 20 |
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You're totally right, and the industry is just the "victim" in this whole charade right? WRONG! Like I said, this "mud slinging" is what divides fans, when we need to all stand together to deal with the problem of failing anime companies. I download AND I support the industry by buying releases. I downloaded Shuffle! when they were FS(fansubbed) and now I am buying the US releases from Best Buy, I guess I am just the scum of the earth to you. How dare I get to see if I will actually enjoy a series before spending 25+ bucks on it, how dare I have a series 2 years before it gets released, and then how dare I go out and buy that series... I must be right up there with Jeffery Daumer. The industry needs to deal with things, and fans need to deal with things once again blame is 50-50 not 100% on fansubbers. |
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