Forum - View topicINTEREST: Gundam Manga Illustrator Recalls an Earlier Time When Sexism Prevented a Female Protagonis
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ZiharkXVI
Posts: 387 |
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I think he's referring back to the old stuff. He'd almost have to be because I was thinking about mecha that had female protags - there were already stuff back in the mid 90s with girls as the main character. Again, not quite the Gundam story arc (lots of commentary on war, peace, politics), but shows like Escaflowne or Patlabor had female leads. Anyways, I'm not quite hooked into Witch yet. But it's better than Orphens so far (nothing could get me to enjoy that show). Or Reconquista. I actually hate that show. |
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Oby
Posts: 108 |
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Imagine saying "Gunplas with female pilots won't sell" to Tokita Kouichi when Gundam Astray Gold Frame Amatsu Mina piloted by Rondo Mina Sahaku that Tokita created is among the coolest, most famous, and most sold out figures/kits in the franchise
All you need to sell the toys is a cool design. Also, a cool pilot won't hurt. |
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Matcha.8
Posts: 130 |
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Why it's not like any of us actually work for that specific Bamco department that are in charge of selling Gunpla (do correct me if I'm wrong), so there's no way we would know for sure. But my point stands: when there's only ever supporting Gundam female characters in existence before Mercury, that means those are the only data points they'll ever have, which becomes the basis of their comparisons. What else are you going to compare them to? |
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jdnation
Posts: 2078 |
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Yeah, I'm with the people not seeing the 'sexism' here, unless the definition now includes typical toy franchises whose primary audience is young boys wanting to cater to their primary base and maintain high toy sales figures.
Someone mentioned the fan base is 1/3 girls? Well, there you go, a minority. But even assuming girls watch a cartoon aimed at boys, so what? My sister watched GI Joe with me, but that never turned her on to the merchandise like it did me, and vice versa when I watched My Little Pony with her. And even assuming there is a good female fan base for a show, you have to understand why they are into it. What if it is precisely the male lead and largely male cast that makes the show attractive to them? Maybe they too would not prefer a girl lead? Is it sexist to assume that female viewers can't get into a show unless they are represented by their own sex? It is more complicated. The primary fan base for Gundam are still young boys. Now undoubtedly it'd be nice to expand the base and have more girls get into it, but it is completely understandable that the financial investment side would be more conservative. To change things up is a risk that will either pay off or not. Consider this: If a female led Gundam show tanked, you can kiss the chance of ever having another female-lead again for at least the next decade goodbye. The suits will double down on the old formula for success. I think it was the right call at the time. And I think the new female protag is also the right call for today, as the series has grown and they now consider audiences overseas as well. Also when a show goes on for awhile, the audience is more open to changes in formula. So it is a safer bet to make today than 10 years ago. |
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Minos_Kurumada
Posts: 1174 |
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I am talking 100% only about toys sells not the anime, Right now I am watching my 5 variations of the Stray Red and I have no idea of which series it comes from. I bought them because they look cool and I have no idea if the pilot is a girl.
Sexism it's a negative bias against a gender, its imposible to take a sexist logical position by basic definition because a bias is illogical on itself. |
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TarsTarkas
Posts: 5912 Location: Virginia, United States |
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How far back in real time are we talking?
Anime has had a lot of main female protags. Gallforce, Gunslinger Girls, Iczer One, and Dirty Pair. Or is this just a Gundam thing...... |
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MFrontier
Posts: 13165 |
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Props to him for supporting the yuri relationship and the female protagonist!
I do kind of feel like there's a stereotype that women aren't as into Mecha as men are, although I might be thinking of that joke in One Piece.
And Hatsu Haru too. |
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Oby
Posts: 108 |
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Nah. Back in 1989, the franchise already had a main Gundam piloted by a woman. It's Gundam Alex with Christina Mackenzie as its pilot in Gundam 0080: War in the Pocket. She may not be the lead character (the lead was a non-pilot little boy), but she piloted the main mech, and the only Gundam in the show to boot. I don't know how well the toy sales of that particular Gundam back in the 90s was but the Master Grade 2.0 version that was released in the 2019 was a best-seller. That probably part of the reasons why Bandai went through with a female lead in WFM. Toy sales is the big deciding factor. 2 of the 4 titles that you listed above didn't have main Mechas to sell. Meanwhile, the other 2 titles had very obscure Mecha toys that you'd be lucky to find them at all. Even Macross still has no female lead for their main anime series till this day. They always have (Japanese or half-Japanese judging by their names & skin color) male leads at the center of love triangles. Meanwhile, before WFM, the Gundam franchise already had variety of males leading the series, from a Japanese-Canadian descent (Amuro Ray), black people (Loran Cehack & Daryl Lorenz), Middle-Eastern (Soran Ibrahim, code name: Setsuna F. Seiei), Caucasian (Io Fleming) & Japanese descent (Shiro Amada). And now we have a tan female lead (Eri/Suletta). So, Gundam is already leagues better than Macross in that regard. The thing is, it's not even clear who was the guy that said "Gundam piloted by females won't sell" to Tokita Kouichi in that article. |
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King Chicken
Posts: 122 |
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Gundam has had black characters before but Loran and Daryl are not some of them. Loran I can see why you'd say as it's the typical "dark skinned Japanese character = black" argument but Daryl is pale as hell. No idea how you could mistake him as black unless you meant Daryl Dodge from 00. |
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John the Dark Lord
Posts: 255 |
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Some people may disagree, but I personally believe the first Macross Delta movie did have a female lead. The movie didn't change the plot from the TV series much compared to Do You Remember Love and the Frontier movies, but there was a clear difference: constant focus on the Walkure from start to end. And while I'm not sure if that was intentional, this change in focus had the side effect of flipping Freya's and Hayate's narrative positions. Now she is the protagonist and him the love interest. As for the center of the love triangles, it depends of what you consider to be a center. Yes, a guy is still the protagonist of the show, but Plus and 7 had a love triangle with one girl and two guys. |
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Beltane70
Posts: 3952 |
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I have to disagree with that. I'd say that Macross 7's does have a female lead in Mylene Jenius, though in the case of that, she shares main character status with Basara Nekki. |
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Oby
Posts: 108 |
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Daryl might be debatable but Loran is not a case of "black Japanese". He's not Japanese descent & he's from the moon and clearly made to be black, not "charcoal black".
Macross Delta movie is a movie (not series) retelling of a series that may or may not switch POV to a female lead but it was still debatable at most. Meanwhile, there is no debate that WFM lead is female. Yes, when I said "center of love triangle" that means it can be both involving "1 guy 2 girls" or "1 girl 2 guys".
Mylene was never the lead of Macross 7 no matter how you slice it. Especially when we have Macross 7 episode(s) where she barely present. A lead is a character that we always follow in a show. Her being barely important in multiple episodes or absent in favor of Basara means that she's not the lead. She was the Heroine of the story who had as big a role as Sayla in OG Gundam. And there is no debate that Sayla was not the lead in OG Gundam. The lead of OG Gundam was Amuro just like Basara was the lead of Macross 7. If you insist that Mylene is the lead in Macross 7 then by your standard, Gundam already has a female lead since 1989 in Christina Mackenzie above. |
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BadNewsBlues
Posts: 6224 |
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And I was pointing out how that’s not true. Companies get bad PR even when they don’t put out products to satisfy a particular market.
Because depending on circumstance it’s not a simple matter of “it doesn’t sell”. Companies can actively sabotage the sales of their items either do to barely marketing it, overproduction, poor craftsmanship, defects, or other issues such as something they do leading to a boycott.
……The same guy who inspite of having said this his company still put out a figure for Lady/She Spawn? https://www.gamestop.com/collectibles/figures/products/mcfarlane-toys-spawn-she-spawn-7-in-action-figure/309358.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=feeds&utm_campaign=%24PLA_%24NB_MNFR_Toys+%26+Collectibles_McFarlane+Toys&utm_id=16244983866&gclid=Cj0KCQjw-fmZBhDtARIsAH6H8qizdvjM_PxdWesc1NmjjdqydlJWCX916fCN5XUbhXgaGYsOLw1CCmMaAlRSEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds Like his comments can both be true while also making himself look like a bullshit artist. |
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