Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: My Dress-Up Darling
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KitKat1721
 Posts: 969 |
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Eh I'll guess I'll be the odd one out here and say it made me a bit uncomfortable. Still going to continue to watch the show obviously, but yeah... Marin applying foundation (typically meant for just your face) all over her entire body really does not feel the same as getting a simple spray tan or using a tanning product like a rub-in lotion. Probably should unpack why the former makes me instantly feel really iffy and the latter doesn't, since it's not like people can't go really overboard on spray tan and achieve the same drastic look. Maybe because the former I associate more with people actually doing brown/blackface and just darkening their face?
I think the whole scene is mostly just a side product of cultural differences (although admittedly I don't know much about the JPN cosplay scene in this specific regard) + a result of the major characters' values in cosplay being as accurate to the original as possible. It's clearly not done maliciously but at the same time, even with those considerations, I still can't blame anyone for feeling a bit weird about the whole thing. Side note: Haven't been keeping up with it outside of a cursory episode or two, but I'm unsure how the dub is going to tackle this given how it's a way more taboo subject for both a broader US audience + its cosplay community. Best guess would have been that they use the word "self-tanner" if they didn't actually show a tiny bottle of foundation onscreen. |
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helln00
Posts: 106 |
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lol i didn't even remember this guy so thats my bad but he also works as a non-conforming character |
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whiskeyii
 Posts: 2266 |
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So as someone who owns a Japanese “How to Cosplay” book that was translated into English, I think we’re seeing a few things at play here, one of which is a disconnect in cosplay culture here. Cosplay in Japan is pretty much ALL about achieving accuracy, so it makes sense that all of Dress-Up Darling’s tips are about how to shape your natural features to better reflect the character you want to portray, for better or worse.
The US, on the other hand, has a much more fraught relationship with things like blackface (and let’s be very very clear, that is absolutely what the reviewer was hinting at—that’s the only other real big cosplay hot-button issue in recent years aside from consent) and up to a few years ago, things like a spray-on tan or body paint to achieve a darker skin tone for paler cosplayers was seen as no big deal, probably because blackface as a concept wasn’t as widely known back then. Now that we as a society are a *little* more socially aware, cosplay culture has shifted much more into being about artistic expression than absolute accuracy. So the American idea of “anyone can cosplay” is a very different one from the Japanese one Dress-Up Darling is positing. Now, does Dress-Up Darling get a free pass because it’s Japanese and has different aims? Not in my book, no. As a deeply homogenous culture, Japan historically doesn’t really seem to do well when it comes to “the wrong type” of mixed races (hello there, Miss Japan 2015). At the very least, this is Occam’s Razor at its finest: a moment of cultural yikes done in ignorance rather than malice—and if you personally weren’t bothered by it, it doesn’t really matter; this IS NOT about the intentionality behind the act of blackface, but about the act itself. You can, after all, still perpetuate racist acts without bad intentions. |
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a_Bear_in_Bearcave
Posts: 537 Location: Poland |
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I completely disagree here. Like you said, it's America that has fraught history with blackface and it's therefore USA's own cultural landmine. Other countries that doesn't have the same history with racism don't and shouldn't use American guideline for what's appropriate or not in their own media and culture. America is not the world's conscience, and the fact that I saw Americans describe terms like "blacklist", blackmail" or "black sheep" as racist because they use word black in negative way (which is custom as probably as old as humanity) is just one of arguments why they are unsuited to be one. Also, the spray-on tan should never be something bad or improper. |
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NeverConvex
 Subscriber Posts: 2485 |
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Yeah, still not seeing it. How are you using Occam's razor here, whiskey? I don't see how it makes things simpler to assume that this must be commonly understood as offensive, and I'm not really sure how else to take that. In Japanese context, what is the specific argument for why this scene should be commonly understood as a racist portrayal?
And the issue isn't really intention -- it is whether it is reasonable given the production context for people to parse this as racially insensitive. It is about what constitutes reasonable, commonly understood meanings of symbols, and we cannot sensibly have that conversation without acknowledging the historical & cultural context within which those symbols were produced. EDIT: For what it's worth, I probably would agree that this scene is treading on very dangerous territory if it had occurred in an American cartoon (because that comes with a very different set of expectations for what dressing someone up in skin-tone-changing body paint means -- as a result, I would at the very least have looked at it with a lot more scrutiny for signs that it was being disrespectful, and would have wondered at them not addressing how it could obviously be read). As is, though, no one has presented any kind of argument for why this should be read similarly in a Japanese context; you even presented arguments for why it should not be read this way, but then strangely turned around and concluded the opposite in what looks to me like a non sequitur. It is, of course, perfectly possible that this is racially insensitive and that mainstream Japanese cosplay culture is on the wrong side of it, but demonstrating that requires some kind of actual context-specific argument, not just a general expression of anxiety. Last edited by NeverConvex on Tue Mar 15, 2022 8:38 am; edited 3 times in total |
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neozxtc
 Posts: 24 |
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This, I hate how Western viewers want to interject their views into a show that clearly isn't racist. I'm a darker tan Asian and I could care less if people want to use spray on tans. Doing blackface clearly would be racist but putting on foundation or spraying a tan on yourself imo is not. I see white people use spray on every summer and seriously why would I get mad. I hate how people especially in the US want to project racism into every thing. |
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b-dragon
Posts: 493 |
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I was fairly unbothered by it, but it definitely effects who I would recommend the show for-I can see why some would be uncomfortable with it, and why some would not.
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StarDango
Posts: 100 |
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Yeeeeeeeah- no. Maybe it varies from state to state, but I’m pretty sure most Americans in the last 2-3 decades were aware about blackface and its sordid history and implications. Why else would that kind of portrayal of African-Americans be weeded out and replaced over time? Are we forgetting about the Jynx controversy from the 90s, which was also based on the same misconceptions people have about Japanese culture? Jynx was meant to be a mix of a Japanese Yokai and a Gyaru girl, but Westerners took it as blackface. Americans and their habit of getting mad about these kinds of things haven’t changed at all. They’ve just been given a new tool called the Internet, where we can now get mad at a bunch of strangers for doing something “offensive” more directly. I’m also a tanned skinned Asian, and saw nothing wrong with what Marin did. If people want to apply tans or lighter foundations to achieve accuracy in their cosplays, then they’re allowed to. Because that’s part of the fun in cosplay. But if they also want to keep their natural skin tones and maybe go for another interpretation of the character to match with it, then that’s fine too. At the end of the day, it should be about the fun of cosplaying a character. And as everyone else pointed out, context and intention is what ultimately matters. The manga/anime portray Marin altering her skin tone as her attempt at achieving accuracy in her cosplay. She does it out of LOVE for the character and a need to portray her as close as possible, which she’s been doing (and will be doing) for all her cosplays. The anime/manga was created by the Japanese for the Japanese, and going by cosplay culture in Japan- Marin’s dedication to accuracy is what their cosplay culture is all about. If this was an American show, with American culture and sensitivities in mind, then maybe it’s worth having this discussion. But as it stands, it’s just a small number of people on Twitter and this ANN’s reviewer getting uncomfortable over something a Japanese anime wasn’t trying to imply or address at all. It’s OK to feel uncomfortable over it, of course, but don’t let those feelings ultimately win over critical thinking and rationality. Because regardless of how you feel, this is just an anime about cosplay that means no harm. |
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whiskeyii
Posts: 2266 |
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Well, since you (and others) asked, for starters, I picked the wrong philosophical Razor! I actually meant Hanlon’s Razor (never attribute to malice what can be attributed to ignorance), so that one’s on me. 
Now, as to the rest of it, my perspective is this: Marin is physically incapable of producing such a dark tan, at least in such a short amount of time. Because of this, she opts for foundation. For me, this feels like Marin is essentially “putting on” another skintone purely for performative reasons, i.e., as a costume, and in a culture that generally does not react positively to those who stray from a particular beauty norm due to cultural hegemony. And that act hews so closely to blackface for me that it’s discomfiting, though in Marin’s case it’s obviously devoid of the minstrelsy and slavery associations that make it especially egregious in the US. I feel like there were better ways to approach this, either with a character who was already dark-skinned like Hattori Heiji of Detective Conan or by making this about non-realistic body paints instead. It’s really just the act of putting on a realistic, darker skintone that you yourself can’t achieve purely for the sake of perfomative reasons that sits pretty wrong with me, even if I understand the cultural context of achieving ultimate accuracy behind it. Again, I don’t think this was intended to come across as mean or exclusionary (I think the *intent* was quite the opposite), but I think even within just a purely Japanese lens (and I’m spelling this out for those of you who didn’t bother: Miss Japan 2015 was half Black and was criticized for “not looking Japanese enough”), it’s a little bit thoughtless. |
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NeverConvex
Subscriber Posts: 2485 |
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Oh, that makes way more sense. Haven't thought of Hanlon's in a while or I might have realized trhat myself. 
This is the bit I'm not following you on. I mean -- I agree that racism/serious issues of racial prejudice are alive and well in Japanese culture. Doesn't take a particularly close examination to see that, and I do remember the Miss Japan 2015 furor you're bringing up (and there's also Gina's earlier post, the Ranking of Kings thing, etc, and we've barely scratched the surface, really). But why does that make cosplay skin-toning insensitive (in a Japanese context)? This doesn't seem comparable to something like blackface to me, where artificially coloring skin to mock/dengirate/cruelly caricature was exactly the thing that was done previously (in an American context). That is, how do we go from "prejudice based on race / skin color is a serious issue in Japanese society" to "artificially changing skin tone to cosplay a character should reasonably be understood in Japanese society as a way of denigrating/mocking/caricaturing a person of color (or some target race)"? Unless I'm just missing something, that seems like a really big leap. I think different cultures have created their own distinct racist baggage, and that things that are rightly associated with well-known, prejudiced historical practices in culture A can be perfectly benign in culture B, despite both cultures having serious prejudicial hang-ups with skin color. Last edited by NeverConvex on Tue Mar 15, 2022 11:15 am; edited 5 times in total |
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LuffyTDS
Posts: 18 |
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"at least in such a short amount of time" are the keys words though aren't they? It is a look that she is totally capable of achieving naturally, so I don't see how taking a shortcut changes anything. |
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Dosmundos
Posts: 41 |
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The original "blackface" was to mock black people. Nowadays, you can't even cosplay as a proud klingon warrior anymore as a white person...
What Marin was cosplaying is a very obviously non-black anime character. Could have been a beastwoman or some other fantasy figure. In any case, a fantasy figure. Sorry, but I really have to state it this strongly: worrying about Marin using something to artificially change her skin tone in this context is making a mockery of everything the fight against blackface and racism is about! |
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a_Bear_in_Bearcave
Posts: 537 Location: Poland |
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But Marin, and gyaru culture in general challenge that cultural hegemony by not conforming to it, which make the concern even weirder to me. Not that I think there is some moral difference between planning your cosplay by getting tan during the summer and making photoshot after getting tanned enough, and using a shortcut to get your proper skin tone. Like it was already mentioned, double eyelids and other face features can also be treated as straying from beauty norm, yet no one says changing your eyes' shape or getting an eyelid operation is racist. It seems to me that of all the issues with beauty standards, only one is ever discussed and it's the one that concerns Americans. BTW, what about cosplaying an very visibly fat/big character, like Fat Gum hero from MHA and, for example, stuffing your clothes to look more like him? Is it also treated as wrong in USA cosplay circles? |
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whiskeyii
Posts: 2266 |
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Ahh, I think I see our disconnect here. I definitely should have parsed my thoughts a little more cleanly here, because I think you and I actually agree on more points than we disagree here. The blackface comparison was meant less as a 1:1 comparison and more as an explanation for why an American viewer might see that scene and go “Woah, that ain’t it, chief,” since some posters didn’t seem to realize how Marin’s actions could be read devoid of the author’s intentions. In a similar but different vein, I *do* think there’s something hypocritical and almost funny in the casual thoughtlessness about a character attempting to replicate a darker skintone in a culture that largely favors pale skin and decries it’s actual, real-life darker-skinned populace, but I agree that that stems largely from Japan’s bigger racial ills and not from the specific stigma associated with blackface as we in the US reckon with it (though I suspect there’s some colorism involving anti-Chinese sentiment tossed in Japan’s reckoning for good measure, but that is well and truly beyond the scope of this conversation.) TL;DR: Is what Marin did racist? Yeah, kinda. Is it blackface? Technically, no, but as Americans we struggle for a better word for it and end up arguing semantics. |
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ATastySub
Past ANN Contributor
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It’s getting a little tiring seeing this thread devolve into the same people as ever claiming that addressing a current issue at all is a problem (cause everyone knows pointing out a problem is the real problem right?). Especially so when they’re saying they’re doing so out of “nuance” yet absolutely refuse to acknowledge that’s exactly why the reviewer mentioned it. Instead we’re now on multiple pages of people ignoring why it was mentioned in the first place, deciding it’s never been a problem a Japan, or even if it was that racism is totally cool because of cultural differences. It’s a cowardly way to attack the reviewer because for a single second it made you have to consider someone other than yourself.
Japan has a long history of racism and xenophobia, and has just as long engaged in racial stereotyping, caricature, and fetishization of other races based in those racist ideas. Pointing that out provides context why someone might be uncomfortable with how nonchalant the skin darkening is portrayed. It is not a condemnation of the show, and especially not an attempt to cancel it. It’s a bit of nuance, the thing some of you keep pretending to care about, in understanding the portrayal. As for pretending blackface doesn’t have a history in Japan, well that’s just frankly bullshit. Japan has been doing so for a long time, purposely incorporating American racism through things like Little Sambo and mixing it with their own xenophobia. If you want to treat it as an American product then you also have to grapple with why they’re happy to consume it. It’s not like anime hasn’t had examples of this either from characters like Cyborg 008, Mr. Popo, Chocolove, etc. There is plenty of history to explore on the topic, and pretending it simply doesn’t exist or doesn’t matter because of cultural differences isn’t a nuanced position. It’s an ignorant one that simply wants to shut down discussions that are too hard for them. You can find plenty of articles and stories about black face in Japan, both in and outside of cosplay communities, and I encourage you to read them and at least pretend to care at all about the actual nuances of conversations involving race, cosplay, and nationalism. Here’s a few to start you off. [url]https://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2015/04/19/voices/historically-japan-is-no-stranger-to-blacks-nor-to-blackface/ [/url] https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2015/3/17/8230783/japan-racism-blackface |
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