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NeverConvex
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Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 2486
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Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:54 am
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Oy, quite ambivalent about this. Not much to say that hasn't already been said in the explosion of this thread overnight, but very torn between fondly remembering the original RK, long wishing for more material in its universe of similar quality, and thinking Watsuki's sentence was a bad joke. And here I thought the Bleach announcement had me unsure how to feel...
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Oby
Joined: 16 Jan 2017
Posts: 108
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Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 7:54 am
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AmpersandsUnited wrote: |
Oby wrote: | Heh, I bet all users who don't want to enjoy RK anymore in this thread have supported products or companies which the owners have done some bad things too. For examples, someone in the previous pages already mentioned Ford cars & other vehicles. And then there's Harry Potter franchise. And don't forget people who are fans of H.P. Lovecraft works and consumers of various adaptations of his stories in various media. And what about the goddamn Disney company which has been proven as racist if you look at their past works (Song of the South anyone? Among others). Did those "sins of the past" make you stop consuming a single product made or supported by Disney? How many of you watched Spiderman NWH this week? |
I don't think a lot of those are applicable. Lovecraft is public domain, so anyone can make a series about his stuff, and most modern big adaptions go out of their way to focus on and uplift black people like the recent Lovecraft Country as a sort of apology or buffer to any pushback they would get for using his work . Similarly, so many Harry Potter organizations, actors, and groups have "denounced" Rowling like that recent 'Quidditch" league changing their name, or omitting her from the Harry Potter reunion special. Disney, Marvel, Star Wars, Star Trek, and all those are also huge franchise that anyone can work on. Spider-Man used to make fun of trans people, gay people, women, minorities, and other stuff in his comics up until the 2000s. Now, they're really pushing new characters like Miles Morales and Spider-Gwen to always be along side him in modern works and are his partners in everything now. Old franchises may have been founded on politically incorrect beliefs and values, but their original creators have long since died, or retired, and they are under new management. So it make perfect sense for someone to like those things now compared to how they used to be, and likewise, why there's so many fans of the older versions of those IPs that hate the modern iterations of them.
Japan is different though since most things are creator owned there and they generally have a huge amount of respect for the creator no matter what they do. That's why act-age was cancelled rather than Matsuki being kicked off the title and letting the artist and other writer take over for it like what happens here. Or why Sugiyama will always be the father of Dragon Quest. Sure, it also helps that their views and actions are not considered big deals in Japan like the west like in Watsuki and Sugiyama's case, but that's just cultural differences. But yes. if people dislike a creators actions then supporting anime, manga, and video games is a lot harder to do for them. For example, in addition to being a huge supporter of Watsuki who stood up for him after his arrest, Eiichiro Oda also mocks and makes derogatory statements towards trans people. People have to make their choices if they'll support One Piece, Kenshin, or any other work because they are the owner of said IP. They can't just be replaced like a writer for Disney or Cthulu can. |
You only prove my point with your Harry Potter argument. Fans of the franchise know that the author is terrible but they can't let go of the Harry Potter media and still buying the merchandises and watch the recent Fantastic Beast movies as well as watching the old HP movies in various streaming services which will still give profit to Rowling and support her agenda no matter how hard they denounce her. It's not that much different from Watsuki's case. So, if you're okay with the Harry Potter situation, why not the RK situation?
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Scion Drake
Joined: 25 Nov 2017
Posts: 957
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Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 7:54 am
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Okay just saying, to everyone saying how Wakatsuki served his time, the guy got off easy. Japan has really messed up laws in regards to sexual assault crimes like how rape is only constituted as such if there’s penile penetration with the vagina. Thouhg there are attempts to rewrite that stuff thankfully, it doesn’t change that Japan has some really draconian laws about this.
So compared to most other cases where such crimes would net you actual major jail time, Wakatsuki basically just got hit with a slap on the wrist relatively speaking.
That’s my 2 cents on this.
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tintor2
Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 2068
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Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:00 am
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Another anime after so many liveactions. This makes me wish Tsubasa: Reservoir Chronicle also got a remake since the first anime suffered a really slow pacing and limited was the animations especially when you compare it with Production I.G's works.
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ZetMoon80
Joined: 29 Nov 2018
Posts: 104
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Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:19 am
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AmpersandsUnited wrote: | Eiichiro Oda also mocks and makes derogatory statements towards trans people. |
What did Oda say? Or is the way the Okama are portrayed in the story? (I don't think they are meant to be offensive) I don't recall Oda saying a controversial statement over trans people, but I'd like to know if you have a source, seems I've missed something.
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NeverConvex
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Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 2486
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Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:23 am
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Oby wrote: | The manner of offense is different, but the sentiment of the fans who want to ignore the author while still enjoy the IP is more or less the same. And just like Rowling, Watsuki never physically hurt anybody. |
I mean -- qualitatively the situations are similar, sure. But I think magnitude of offense matters, and I'd expect most people think Rowling's offense is less dangerous than Watsuki's. I feel like I already conveyed that, though, so I'll just leave off there, rather than start going in circles.
(Also, side point: this being said, I'm mostly trying to put myself in someone else's shoes, here. I bought and read the original HP books and saw the original movies, but haven't consumed any HP content since then. Not because of Rowling's remarks, but just out of a lack of interest, really.)
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Oby
Joined: 16 Jan 2017
Posts: 108
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Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:35 am
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NeverConvex wrote: |
Oby wrote: | The manner of offense is different, but the sentiment of the fans who want to ignore the author while still enjoy the IP is more or less the same. And just like Rowling, Watsuki never physically hurt anybody. |
I mean -- qualitatively the situations are similar, sure. But I think magnitude of offense matters, and I'd expect most people think Rowling's offense is less dangerous than Watsuki's. I feel like I already conveyed that, though, so I'll just leave off there, rather than start going in circles. |
At the end of the day, it depends on the fans of the IP. And in my opinion, fans supporting IPs in which the authors have done some offense but never really physically hurt anybody or rob anybody is fair game. For example, I can still watch movies produced by a generally racist producer even towards my own race. If I like the movie, I like the movie.
NeverConvex wrote: |
(Also, side point: this being said, I'm also mostly trying to put myself in someone else's shoes, here. I bought and read the original HP books and saw the original movies, but haven't consumed any HP content since then. Not because of Rowling's remarks, but just out of a lack of interest, really.) |
Well, seems like you're not a die-hard HP-fan then. Lucky you.
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Psajdak
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Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:37 am
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When people care about things that don't concern them.
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Matros
Joined: 22 Feb 2021
Posts: 317
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Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:39 am
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People celebraiting the news actually surprise me.
Also, Liden Films will fumble once again like they always do. Not to mention they have too much on their plate next year, it's inevitable many of their projects will be rushed.
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Psajdak
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Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:54 am
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Matros wrote: | People celebraiting the news actually surprise me. |
Most people, like myself, don't wanna concern themselves with crimes of people from other countries.
Rurouni Kenshin is a wonderful story, and it deserves every support it can get.
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db999
Joined: 23 Dec 2017
Posts: 322
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Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:08 am
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OK, I believe that there are three separate issues here. Issue 1 continuing to spend money on and financially supporting an author and their works when said author is a despicable person and a criminal, issue 2 continuing to enjoy the works from such an author, and issue 3 whether issues 1 and 2 are the same thing or can be separated. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that issues 1 and 2 are not mutually exclusive. It is possible to enjoy and consume an author’s work without financially supporting them as there are ways to consume their work without giving them any money. Normally I don’t agree with illegally consuming works but in this case, I’m not against it.
Another example, what if you bought the work before the knowledge came out that he was a pedophile. You bought it before you knew that fact, and unfortunately, it is not possible to take your money back or make it so you didn’t support it financially. In this case, there are a few things a person can do. They can stow this material away somewhere and not engage with it anymore, and they can also continue to enjoy the material that they already bought. Whether someone does either of those things is a personal decision and no one should be shamed or denounced for continuing to enjoy the works that they bought BEFORE they knew that the author was so awful. I understand that for some people the work can be completely ruined because the knowledge that something that you enjoyed was created by such a person is so reviling for you, that to continue to read or get any enjoyment from the work is not possible anymore. I fully support people who feel that way, and I admire the moral stance that those people take. I don’t agree with or support anyone continuing to financially support this series. However, I also think that if someone is still able to enjoy the series, and continues to enjoy the media they already bought before they knew the author was awful and doesn’t financially support future works that they should be allowed to do that. And I also think people should not be shamed for continuing to enjoy the series.
Someone mentioned Harry Potter earlier in this thread. Rowling came out as transphobic around 1-2 years ago. The last time that I bought anything Harry Potter-related was before she came out as transphobic. I grew up with the series and it became an important part of who I am. When I found out what she was, I wasn’t sure if I could like the series ever again, but as time passed I found it became less painful to think about the series and I now find that I can still enjoy the series. While I do not financially support or buy anything Harry Potter related it is not immoral to continue to enjoy the works I bought before I knew that fact.
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Casval Rem Deikun
Joined: 24 Feb 2021
Posts: 270
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Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:16 am
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Wow never thought Kenshin would get another anime adaption this is great! The new manga has been really good too!
People talking about the crime that was committed, which was disappointing and wrong. Watsuiki never physically hurt anyone. Though what he had was disturbing, people wanting his career to be over is way too over the top.
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Matros
Joined: 22 Feb 2021
Posts: 317
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Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:56 am
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Psajdak wrote: |
Matros wrote: | People celebraiting the news actually surprise me. |
Most people, like myself, don't wanna concern themselves with crimes of people from other countries.
Rurouni Kenshin is a wonderful story, and it deserves every support it can get. |
Even then it's made by a probblematic studio that will make a half baked product that's not worth supporting. You won't get a visual spectacle.
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Todd_Harry08
Joined: 24 Sep 2019
Posts: 208
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Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:03 am
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Cardcaptor Takato wrote: |
WANNFH wrote: | Loading MAPPA even more than what was hung on them already with their workload production is even bigger crime against the actual people, let the people rest!
Plus Deen is actually not the best choice either, and actually even worse than LIDEN when it comes to modern production - Orphen is quite bad, and 7DS last season is notoriously known for it's bottom-hitting animation (which they are outsourced to other studio outside of Japan).
LIDEN in other way got the major hit recently with the Tokyo Revengers, so that's probably the reason why they are chosen. |
MAPPA is just an example like how they're doing Chainsaw Man next year. The point you're missing is there's tons of other bigger anime studios they could have picked if they had actual faith in this new Kenshin anime being a big success and they went with the studio that made Terra Formers and Berserk 2016. We've already seen the mixed results Shaman King's reboot got being adapted by Bridge. |
Lidenfilms were just a producer and wasn't involved with the animation production.
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Ryuji-Dono
Joined: 26 Apr 2018
Posts: 1231
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Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:03 am
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Matros wrote: | Even then it's made by a probblematic studio that will make a half baked product that's not worth supporting. You won't get a visual spectacle. |
WE shall see about that.
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