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DRosencraft
Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 672
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 Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:04 am
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Like with any crime, a major part of combating the criminal enterprise is going to be getting the end-users to be aware of and willing to stop participating in the wrong. As long as there are a large number of people willing to consume pirated works, there is a large profit motive for people to pirate. You do need to go after the pirates and those willingly or negligently helping them distribute, but you also need to work at convincing end-users to be discerning about where and how they consume that media.
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TsukasaElkKite
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 4022
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Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 11:28 am
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This was a very interesting article. I've wondered about it considering Japan doesn't have copyright protection laws.
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Whitestrider
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Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 12:25 pm
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| TsukasaElkKite wrote: | | This was a very interesting article. I've wondered about it considering Japan doesn't have copyright protection laws. |
In what sense? They have copyright laws similar to many other countries...
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a_Bear_in_Bearcave
Joined: 14 Jan 2019
Posts: 550
Location: Poland
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Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 12:31 pm
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| DRosencraft wrote: | | Like with any crime, a major part of combating the criminal enterprise is going to be getting the end-users to be aware of and willing to stop participating in the wrong. As long as there are a large number of people willing to consume pirated works, there is a large profit motive for people to pirate. You do need to go after the pirates and those willingly or negligently helping them distribute, but you also need to work at convincing end-users to be discerning about where and how they consume that media. |
Going for pirates won't increase any creator's wallet, probably end up decreasing revenues. Better to go try removing barriers for customers. For example, simplify international deals so users in half of the world have options other then "This website is not available in your country" or in case of Crunchyroll, only "This series..." half of the time - mostly with older shows. Stop hunting for exclusive deals so users don't have to pay for five services or switch between them constantly. Stop constantly removing media from services so customer suddenly discovers the second season suddenly disappeared.
Look how nice and simple for customers is computer game market - most PC games are available not only on Steam, but also on GOG or creators websites, and having e.g. Epic account next to Steam one doesn't cost you additional monthly money anyway. PC games are often ported on console and vice-versa, many games release on all major hardware platforms, and even exclusive games often end up on other platforms after few years. Internet market for movies and shows seems like horror-show in comparison.
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OrdepNM
Joined: 14 Nov 2018
Posts: 261
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Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 1:12 pm
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While I can't really endorse bootlegs and what not, as an Hatsune Miku figure collector, once in a while you run into one that you begrudgingly have to admit it's actually preety cute.
Like if you're going to make a bootleg at least try to create some value by doing a unique design that people can be happy to own and that might turn into a collectors item in its own right, rather than a cheap knockoff that's just going to upset the unsuspecting buyer when they figure out. I do realize those are the very small minority tough.
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BadNewsBlues
Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 6316
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Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 1:54 pm
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| a_Bear_in_Bearcave wrote: | |
Look how nice and simple for customers is computer game market - most PC games are available not only on Steam, but also on GOG or creators websites, and having e.g. Epic account next to Steam one doesn't cost you additional monthly money anyway. PC games are often ported on console and vice-versa, many games release on all major hardware platforms, and even exclusive games often end up on other platforms after few years. Internet market for movies and shows seems like horror-show in comparison. |
This is particularly funny if somewhat bizarre given the still sore feelings over the EGS existence and also their habit of locking up exclusive releases to say nothing of people who port beg.
This on top of the fact that Sony is presently being sued because of their exclusive digital releases.
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AkumaChef
Joined: 10 Jan 2019
Posts: 821
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Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 2:29 pm
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| DRosencraft wrote: | | Like with any crime, a major part of combating the criminal enterprise is going to be getting the end-users to be aware of and willing to stop participating in the wrong. As long as there are a large number of people willing to consume pirated works, there is a large profit motive for people to pirate. You do need to go after the pirates and those willingly or negligently helping them distribute, but you also need to work at convincing end-users to be discerning about where and how they consume that media. |
I completely agree, but I think it's a hard battle to win.
I don't know much about Manga piracy, but I certainly know about bootleg audio CDs, character goods like plushies or figures/statues, and bootleg tapes and DVDs. Many of my anime friends I knew in college had both. Some of them were very pragmatic about it. They claimed they could not afford the real deal and were happy to buy Son May CDs, etc, simply because they were cheap. They didn't care if they were legit or not. I'd say the other three-quarter were simply unaware that what they had was a bootleg. Many CDs and video discs came in high quality professional looking packaging. Many statues and plushies looked great and had official-looking tags and logos on them. Once people became aware they had bought fakes two things happened. Some were happy to learn about the distinction and were careful to avoid fakes in the future. Some were appalled and worked to get con dealer rooms to crack down on the selling of bootlegs. But there were also some who didn't really care because they felt the goods were nice enough and/or they became part of group number one after they got sticker shock from the official prices.
Educating consumers about how to tell the difference, I think, is a big step forward. Adding things like holograms to packaging is a good way to both discourage and spot fakes, but they really ought to be obvious. It was easy to spot bootleg CDs because most lacked the JASRAC hologram on the back of the jewel case insert. But it's pretty small and many people might miss it if they didn't obsess over details or weren't informed.
Something more obvious would make more sense. I noticed that in all my years scouring anime CD soundtracks and used Japanese CDs in general that I never once saw a bootleg of any of the CDs which came with significant omake. Many Japanese edition anime soundtracks came with lapel pins, CD-sized books or manga, stickers, calendars, fancy slipcases to contain the above items, and so on. Sometimes they came in fancy cardboard boxes or unusual plastic packaging. Those never got knocked off, I suspect, because of the effort involved in making fakes.
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TsukasaElkKite
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 4022
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Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 2:40 pm
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| Whitestrider wrote: |
| TsukasaElkKite wrote: | | This was a very interesting article. I've wondered about it considering Japan doesn't have copyright protection laws. |
In what sense? They have copyright laws similar to many other countries... |
Doujinshi, mainly.
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Yttrbio
Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 3672
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Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 2:56 pm
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I believe doujinshi are just as illegal in Japan as they would be anywhere else (more so, in some ways), there's just no one who would see a benefit in prosecuting them, so it doesn't matter.
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Whitestrider
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Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 5:40 pm
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| TsukasaElkKite wrote: |
| Whitestrider wrote: |
| TsukasaElkKite wrote: | | This was a very interesting article. I've wondered about it considering Japan doesn't have copyright protection laws. |
In what sense? They have copyright laws similar to many other countries... |
Doujinshi, mainly. |
Doujinshi are something of their own, since they are so popular in some cases and sometimes in restricted occasions (like the various comikets) mangaka are allowed to sell doujinshi based on other people's IPs. BUT in general the usual copyright laws are applied. In fact the author of "Hi score girl" had many legal troubles for using some SNK characters in his work (about videogames) without the consent (=without paying them) of SNK Playmore. And mind you, these character were only used because the manga was about real videogames of the '90s.
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DRosencraft
Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 672
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Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 9:21 pm
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| a_Bear_in_Bearcave wrote: | | ... Going for pirates won't increase any creator's wallet, probably end up decreasing revenues. Better to go try removing barriers for customers. For example, simplify international deals so users in half of the world have options other then "This website is not available in your country" or in case of Crunchyroll, only "This series..." half of the time - mostly with older shows. Stop hunting for exclusive deals so users don't have to pay for five services or switch between them constantly. Stop constantly removing media from services so customer suddenly discovers the second season suddenly disappeared... |
This is a strawman argument and the very subject I'm getting at about educating and convincing the consuming public. No matter how annoying or inefficient their system is, it's their choice for how to distribute their copyrighted works. I don't like how Coke bottles their soda, I don't get to walk in a grocery store and walk out with a case of Coke Cola without paying, or knowingly pay somebody else who did. You do, you're in for a court date and some time in lockup.
You mention the video game industry, but the game industry is also constantly fighting against piracy. In fact, the modern game "system" developed not that long ago from dragging folks along to the process of game codes, account linking, and the rest of it. Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo still fight against unauthorized emulators. It may not get as much coverage as it once did, but the game industry absolutely still fights piracy.
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Horsefellow
Joined: 01 Jan 2020
Posts: 262
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Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 11:00 pm
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| AkumaChef wrote: | | I don't know much about Manga piracy, but I certainly know about bootleg audio CDs, character goods like plushies or figures/statues, and bootleg tapes and DVDs. Many of my anime friends I knew in college had both. Some of them were very pragmatic about it. They claimed they could not afford the real deal and were happy to buy Son May CDs, etc, simply because they were cheap. They didn't care if they were legit or not. I'd say the other three-quarter were simply unaware that what they had was a bootleg. Many CDs and video discs came in high quality professional looking packaging. Many statues and plushies looked great and had official-looking tags and logos on them. Once people became aware they had bought fakes two things happened. Some were happy to learn about the distinction and were careful to avoid fakes in the future. Some were appalled and worked to get con dealer rooms to crack down on the selling of bootlegs. But there were also some who didn't really care because they felt the goods were nice enough and/or they became part of group number one after they got sticker shock from the official prices.. |
Back in the day I knew tons of people, including myself, with a ton of those Hong Kong bootleg DVDs where they had like all 26 or 52 episodes in a boxset for like 30-40 bucks. I remember watching hundreds of episodes of One Piece back in the day that way. This was back in 2000 back before a lot of online fansubs became a thing and One Piece was virtually unknown in America. I also had a lot of anime CDs but I don't know if they were bootlegs or not. They probably were since I ordered them from random online websites.
These days, there's no real point to bootlegs anymore IMO. If you're going to pirate anime and music, you're going to do it online which is free. Bootleg figures are always a pain though, since they're such awful quality and buying a figure to find it's a shoddy knockoff always sucks. That's why I avoid eBay and Amazon and only use Mandarake for secondhand figures. I hear from friends that companies are going after Etsy sellers who sell prints, charms, and other fanmade goods of anime. I assume you can still find all that stuff at conventions since that's the whole point of artist alleys and they've never cared enough to even stop bootleg sellers.
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Cutiebunny
Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 1767
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Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 12:15 am
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| Quote: | | Years later, Tezuka Productions, the IP management company of his works, didn't take any legal action when Disney's Lion King was released in theaters, even when a number of critics pointed out its similarities with one of Tezuka's work, Jungle Emperor Leo. |
It's not just Leo, but also Wansa-kun.
While Tezuka wasn't involved in the production of the anime, he was originally commissioned by Sanwa Bank to design their mascot in 1970...and that's where Wansa-kun was born. Wansa's design goes through a couple different versions. Early 1971 Wansa looks very much like a cute cartoon dog. But, at one point during its evolution, it looks very much like young Kimba's twin. Some of the hanken poses are eerily similar to Lion King artwork from the time.
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yuna49
Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 3804
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Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 7:55 am
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| Whitestrider wrote: |
| TsukasaElkKite wrote: | | This was a very interesting article. I've wondered about it considering Japan doesn't have copyright protection laws. |
In what sense? They have copyright laws similar to many other countries... |
Japan's laws are often stricter, if anything. The concept of "fair use" doesn't exist, for instance.
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Tempest
 I Run this place.
ANN Publisher
Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 10461
Location: Do not message me for support.
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Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 12:43 pm
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| TsukasaElkKite wrote: | | This was a very interesting article. I've wondered about it considering Japan doesn't have copyright protection laws. |
| Whitestrider wrote: | |
In what sense? They have copyright laws similar to many other countries... |
| TsukasaElkKite wrote: | |
Doujinshi, mainly. |
Doujinshi are tolerated by the rights holders. Those that are derivative works are 100% violations of Japanese copyright and, in many cases, trademarks. If the rights holders wanted to shut down doujinshi, they easily could. However doujinshi are widely deemed as not being harmful to the industry, and even beneficial, therefore they are tolerated in most cases. There have been a few doujinshi that resulted in creators/rights holders affirming their rights and having the distribution of certain doujinshi stopped.
Japan's copyright laws are pretty standard, they don't have anywhere near the same amount of "fair use" as the USA (most countries don't), but contrary to popular opinion, they do have some.
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