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INTEREST: Online Petition Demands Content Warnings for Sexual Violence in Weekly Shonen Jump


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Top Gun



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 4745
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:55 pm Reply with quote
Let's face reality: there is a disturbing amount of anime and manga content ostensibly targeted at young teenage audiences that features some truly appalling treatment of sexuality in general, especially when it comes to treatment of female characters. If you're going to claim that media content doesn't affect children and adolescents, then why do we have age ratings systems in the first place? It's a biological fact that the portions of the brain that handle cognitive control and longer-term planning continue to develop into our 20s, well beyond the target audience of what's published in WSJ. If it's in a softcore porn series targeted at the 18+ crowd, then by all means do whatever the hell you want in there. Adults should be able to consume whatever content they choose, no matter how skeevy some may find it. But keep it out of mass-market series.

(If I never see another protagonist trip over a female and get an "accidental" hand full of boob it will still be too soon...)
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JulieYBM



Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 209
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:59 pm Reply with quote
I definitely find myself questioning the content in JUMP comics the older I become. JUMP's readers are below the age of 18, so are we not showing sexual content to minors? That seems unacceptable to me. I wouldn't mind the content if it were part of an erotic publication for 18+ folks. JUMP's editorial team definitely needs to be cleaned up, though. It's entirely made up of the same kind of men with no differing perspectives and life experiences.
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Actar



Joined: 21 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:00 pm Reply with quote
You know, something tells me that most of the characters in shonen manga don't consent to getting killed or violently beat-up either, under-aged or not.
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xScar



Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 288
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:02 pm Reply with quote
68% of Jump readers are 15 years old or younger, but I guess even checking Wikipedia is too difficult for most.

Jump is targeted at ELEMENTARY and junior high school students first and foremost.
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Kougeru



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 5560
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:03 pm Reply with quote
Arale Kurashiki wrote:
Whenever I looked at it, I always thought I would be horrified to grow up as a kid in Japan having To Love-Ru advertised to me. So... this is kind of satisfying?

People should be able to write whatever manga they want but maybe don't market porn at kids, is all I'm saying.
it wasn't aimed at children. Teens and "children" are different groups with children generally being like 12 and under. Furthermore, you picked a weird series to attack. It's one of the few ecchi that actually had a good plot most of the time.

I don't have problems with labels but having them IN PANELS is too much. That's just obstructive. Warning before each chapter and notes after the chapter is a better way to do it.
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Replica_Rabbit



Joined: 23 Aug 2015
Posts: 354
Location: Portland
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:15 pm Reply with quote
Actar wrote:
You know, something tells me that most of the characters in shonen manga don't consent to getting killed or violently beat-up either, under-aged or not.

Sometimes they do, since most Shonen have tournament arcs and they don't normally go around beating people up for no reason. (If they do, they usually the villain)
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Jonny Mendes



Joined: 17 Oct 2014
Posts: 997
Location: Europe
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:19 pm Reply with quote
xScar wrote:
68% of Jump readers are 15 years old or younger, but I guess even checking Wikipedia is too difficult for most.

Jump is targeted at ELEMENTARY and junior high school students first and foremost.


Quote:

Weekly Shōnen Jump (Japanese: 週刊少年ジャンプ, Hepburn: Shūkan Shōnen Janpu, stylized in English as WEEKLY JUMP) is a weekly shōnen manga anthology published in Japan by Shueisha under the Jump line of magazines.
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Shōnen, shonen, or shounen manga (少年漫画, shōnen manga) is manga aimed at a young teen male target-demographic. The age group varies with individual readers and different magazines, but it is primarily intended for boys between the ages of 12 and 18.

A 12yo are in Junior high school.

Top Gun wrote:
Let's face reality: there is a disturbing amount of anime and manga content ostensibly targeted at young teenage audiences that features some truly appalling treatment of sexuality in general, especially when it comes to treatment of female characters. If you're going to claim that media content doesn't affect children and adolescents, then why do we have age ratings systems in the first place? It's a biological fact that the portions of the brain that handle cognitive control and longer-term planning continue to develop into our 20s, well beyond the target audience of what's published in WSJ. If it's in a softcore porn series targeted at the 18+ crowd, then by all means do whatever the hell you want in there. Adults should be able to consume whatever content they choose, no matter how skeevy some may find it. But keep it out of mass-market series.

(If I never see another protagonist trip over a female and get an "accidental" hand full of boob it will still be too soon...)


In Japan, sex education is mandatory from age 10 so a 12 yo already knows what is sex when read this magazine
Also in elementary school they learn moral education wherethey learn how to consider other peoples' perspectives and cultivate a sense of "omoiyari" (consideration of others)
so they already learn sexuality and proper social behavior. They can make a distinction what is proper and improper because they already learn it so there are no problem reading this manga,


Last edited by Jonny Mendes on Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:32 pm; edited 3 times in total
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all-tsun-and-no-dere
ANN Reviewer


Joined: 06 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:23 pm Reply with quote
burning_scrub wrote:
I'm a bit confused by the phrase "trended online" in this case. 4000 signatures on change.org is basically nothing, especially after getting signal boosted by news sites. Maybe it was a hot discussion on Japanese twitter, but if that's the case it's hard to imagine it being a favorable one with such a low number of signatures. I've seen Japanese tweets on this subject that got tens of thousands of likes, so I don't really understand what makes this petition notable.

Badej wrote:
The way I read this piece is that he somehow didn't get his sexual education from either his parents or his school and blames WSJ for it. If it takes you until university to realize that unwanted sexual acts with someone else is not done then it clearly isn't WSJ's fault.


This was my takeaway as well. My friends and I watched a lot of fanservicey anime in highschool like DxD, yet none of us went around thinking it was okay to flip skirts. To say "I couldn't differentiate fantasy from reality, therefore nobody else can" is just dumb.


Being able to understand the difference between reality and fiction is predicated on fully understanding reality, though. Sex education is notoriously terrible in Japan, both from family and in schools, with little discussion of consent. Skirt-flipping and nonconsensual touching occurs frequently in even Japanese media aimed at young children - see Dragon Ball - so it's a much more common narrative for young Japanese children, as opposed to in American media, where children's media is generally scrubbed of sexuality. Then you have the more insidious stuff that reflects attitude toward women's roles, like female characters being shoved to the sidelines and relegated to support roles even though, by all rights, they are perfectly capable of participating in battle...

Plus, I saw plenty of this kind of behavior when I was growing up - my brother's friend trying to peep at me while I was changing in my room, boys in high school poking my butt to make me mad during class, and so on. Saying, "Well, it was never a problem for me, so I don't think it's a problem for anyone," is counterproductive.

I'm a teacher. Children learn from media. You are not immune to propaganda. Period. Full stop. I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand. Sekiguchi's proposal isn't perfect, but I wholeheartedly support him wanting to do some good and help improve attitudes toward women and their bodies.
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Adv193



Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Posts: 189
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:30 pm Reply with quote
Shuichi wrote:
Nudity is definitely not something new in Shonen Jump. In fact, mangas in the early 90s like Video Girl Ai got censored becsuse they showed too much.

https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=4130


There was also a lot of mannequin-design based nudity in broadcast anime at one time in Japan prior to the 2000's, such as the final episode of Sailor Stars that aired in 1997. Though it wasn't too realistic, the fact was it would still be censored outside of Japan as it still would be treated the same as actual nudity.

Besides I am advocate of keeping children away from this kind of stuff because of the unpredictability of how it could affect them.
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Altorrin



Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 321
Location: Florida, United States
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:38 pm Reply with quote
Peebs wrote:
All of you who missed the point of the petition, should ask a woman how she feels about this.


Hi, woman here. I feel it's unnecessary and teenagers can distinguish between reality and fiction.
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Albion Hero



Joined: 19 Oct 2019
Posts: 96
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:39 pm Reply with quote
I'm honestly surprised that manga aimed at teenagers is allowed to have nudity to begin with. I always thought that any form of nipples was an instant 17+ rating, yet this magazine aimed at 12+ year olds has stuff with lots of naked women like To Love Ru and Yuuna yet gets away with it. I know they technically censor a little bit of it, but its not like the manga volumes they sell with it fully uncensored are sold only in adult stores.
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burning_scrub



Joined: 19 Feb 2020
Posts: 26
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:32 pm Reply with quote
all-tsun-and-no-dere wrote:


Being able to understand the difference between reality and fiction is predicated on fully understanding reality, though. Sex education is notoriously terrible in Japan, both from family and in schools, with little discussion of consent. Skirt-flipping and nonconsensual touching occurs frequently in even Japanese media aimed at young children - see Dragon Ball - so it's a much more common narrative for young Japanese children, as opposed to in American media, where children's media is generally scrubbed of sexuality.


Then the focus should be on improving sex education, rather than changing media. Without doing that, you can purge all the lewd manga you want, the behavior won't get any better.

Quote:

Plus, I saw plenty of this kind of behavior when I was growing up - my brother's friend trying to peep at me while I was changing in my room, boys in high school poking my butt to make me mad during class, and so on. Saying, "Well, it was never a problem for me, so I don't think it's a problem for anyone," is counterproductive.


When I said it wasn't a problem for us, I was referring to learning that behavior from anime, not saying that nobody in high school harasses girls. Unless you know that those kids learned to do that from manga, I'm not sure how it's relevant. There were boys that pulled that sort of crap in our school too, and I'm positive they weren't anime fans. I think the fact that it's so pervasive outside of Japan works against the idea that manga contributes significantly to the problem.

Quote:

I'm a teacher. Children learn from media. You are not immune to propaganda. Period. Full stop. I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand. Sekiguchi's proposal isn't perfect, but I wholeheartedly support him wanting to do some good and help improve attitudes toward women and their bodies.


"You can learn things from media" is a true statement, but the problem is it doesn't make "these specific Shonen Jump series cause boys to think sexual harassment is okay" true. That claim requires evidence. I think it's "hard for people to understand" because people who try to speak authoritatively about the impact specific fiction has are generally presenting their speculation as fact. When that speculation doesn't line up with the experience of readers, it shouldn't come as a surprise that there's backlash.
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all-tsun-and-no-dere
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Joined: 06 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:26 pm Reply with quote
burning_scrub wrote:
all-tsun-and-no-dere wrote:


Being able to understand the difference between reality and fiction is predicated on fully understanding reality, though. Sex education is notoriously terrible in Japan, both from family and in schools, with little discussion of consent. Skirt-flipping and nonconsensual touching occurs frequently in even Japanese media aimed at young children - see Dragon Ball - so it's a much more common narrative for young Japanese children, as opposed to in American media, where children's media is generally scrubbed of sexuality.


Then the focus should be on improving sex education, rather than changing media. Without doing that, you can purge all the lewd manga you want, the behavior won't get any better.



We can have both. And no one is proposing a "purge" of lewd manga, just an effort to educate young readers about what is unacceptable in real life.

Quote:
Quote:

Plus, I saw plenty of this kind of behavior when I was growing up - my brother's friend trying to peep at me while I was changing in my room, boys in high school poking my butt to make me mad during class, and so on. Saying, "Well, it was never a problem for me, so I don't think it's a problem for anyone," is counterproductive.


When I said it wasn't a problem for us, I was referring to learning that behavior from anime, not saying that nobody in high school harasses girls. Unless you know that those kids learned to do that from manga, I'm not sure how it's relevant. There were boys that pulled that sort of crap in our school too, and I'm positive they weren't anime fans. I think the fact that it's so pervasive outside of Japan works against the idea that manga contributes significantly to the problem.


I'm not saying "manga causes this problem," I'm saying that both Japanese and American societies have a permissive attitude toward boys sexually harassing girls. This undercuts the excuse that readers can separate reality and fantasy because they do not live in a reality that sufficiently denies that it's unacceptable to treat girls in the way depicted in manga, or a variety of other media.

Quote:
Quote:

I'm a teacher. Children learn from media. You are not immune to propaganda. Period. Full stop. I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand. Sekiguchi's proposal isn't perfect, but I wholeheartedly support him wanting to do some good and help improve attitudes toward women and their bodies.


"You can learn things from media" is a true statement, but the problem is it doesn't make "these specific Shonen Jump series cause boys to think sexual harassment is okay" true. That claim requires evidence. I think it's "hard for people to understand" because people who try to speak authoritatively about the impact specific fiction has are generally presenting their speculation as fact. When that speculation doesn't line up with the experience of readers, it shouldn't come as a surprise that there's backlash.
[/quote]

Your experience is anecdotal, while in academia, there is a growing body of research and evidence that media affects people's attitudes towards a huge variety of subjects, including gender roles and relations. Is it really such a stretch to say, "If Shonen Jump continues to present sexual harassment as funny, then some children will imitate it in an attempt to be funny"? [/i]
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Sakagami Tomoyo



Joined: 06 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:36 pm Reply with quote
Badej wrote:
The way I read this piece is that he somehow didn't get his sexual education from either his parents or his school and blames WSJ for it. If it takes you until university to realize that unwanted sexual acts with someone else is not done then it clearly isn't WSJ's fault.

As all-tsun-and-no-dere points out, sex education in Japan is pretty terrible. Sex education in many countries, America included, is actually pretty bad too. Thinking back, the sex education I got at school here in Australia pretty much entirely focused on the reproductive biology. Subjects like safe sex and the importance of consent were basically left to parents to talk about - or not, as is the case for many who find it too awkward to talk to their kids about sex at all, much less the really uncomfortable things like rape and sexual assault. But there's considerable resistance to the notion of properly teaching about those in school sex education, generally from people who would rather the subject of sex never be mentioned to anyone under 18 to begin with, out of a puritanical (and mistaken) belief that it's Bad and Wrong to have sex unless you're married and it's purely to have kids, and that if you don't tell kids about it they won't do it. End result, a whole lot of teenagers and adults with natural sexual desires who have not been told some very important aspects of it.
Badej wrote:
I also fail to see how his example about his lack of capability of distinguishing between fantasy and reality works? What year was he in when that incident happened? If it was near the end of his elementary school days then it has less to do with fantasy vs reality and more to do with the beginning of puberty and bad sexual education by the parents/elementary school.

After reading a bit further he still can't distinguish between fantasy vs reality even after being "educated" as nobody gets hurt in these "unwanted" sexual acts between characters that 1) don't exist, 2) don't have feelings, and 3) can't possible think for themselves and thus makes the consent argument a moot point.

Distinguishing between fantasy and reality is... a tricky subject. "Oh, of course everyone (except small children and some people with mental illnesses) can tell the difference between fantasy and reality," everyone says. But it's actually not that simple and clear cut. Even if we know intellectually that fiction isn't reality, fiction still shapes our views and expectations of how things work, especially in the absence of proper education about them. Even for adults to some degree, but more so for children and adolescents. This is something almost no-one wants to really think about or address, because it's too uncomfortable and confronting to properly think about the idea that the fiction we enjoy might not be as harmless and seperate from our view of reality as we think it is. The content of manga running in WSJ isn't the primary problem here, but it is still part of the problem.

And do remember, for pretty much all of recorded history, we've been using ostensibly fictional tales to impress upon people moral values and cautions about various dangers.
burning_scrub wrote:
My friends and I watched a lot of fanservicey anime in highschool like DxD, yet none of us went around thinking it was okay to flip skirts. To say "I couldn't differentiate fantasy from reality, therefore nobody else can" is just dumb.

On the other hand, it's equally dumb to say "well my friends and I didn't mimic the exact thing we saw in this show, so it doesn't influence anyone's idea of what's okay or not."
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DavetheUsher



Joined: 19 May 2014
Posts: 505
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:49 pm Reply with quote
Actar wrote:
You know, something tells me that most of the characters in shonen manga don't consent to getting killed or violently beat-up either, under-aged or not.


Violence good, sex bad? Laughing But since it only got 4000 signature I'm guessing not many people consider this a serious issue so it's probably not fair to say that. Seems like just a few media watchdogs up to no good.
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