Forum - View topicNaruto: How critical is the Nine-Tailed Fox?
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BellosTheMighty
 Posts: 767 |
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On another thread, a few of us got into a discussion about the fights in Naruto. It was brought up that they're unusual in modern shonen anime, in that they're typically not resolved on the basis of strength or dramatic flourishes on the part of the writer. While there are tiers of character power, most commonly victory in Naruto is a result of having out-thought your opponent. Good examples are Naruto vs. Kiba, Shino vs. the sound ninja, and Shikimaru vs. pretty much anyone.
However, there was some insistence that Naruto would not be a successful ninja if he wasn't being indwelt by the Nine-Tailed Fox. This argument got pretty contentious, to the extent that it alienated everyone else in the thread. Eventually, it was reduced to me and another person screaming at each other. That's no way to find new ideas, and so I felt a need to start things over and get opinions from the wider forum readership. The argument is basically that Naruto turns to trickery and creative tactics only when brute force fails him, that this often works thanks to his superior power, and that even when he wins by other means, he's still using the nine-tailed fox's chakra. The opposition notes the following counter-examples: - That Naruto's brute-force approach, though responsible for some victories, has also nearly gotten him killed on several occassions- vs. Orochimaru, vs. Kimimaru. - That perhaps his most definative victory, against Kiba during the Chunin tournament, occurred after Orochimaru had sealed the fox's chakra. - That even with the Nine-Tailed Fox "on", Naruto has needed to be clever to beat opponents with less net chakra, such as Neji. - That some of of Naruto's most memorable moments involve him getting a leg up on the enemy using comparatively little chakra- witness the shuriken trick during the first fight with Zabuza and his nearly taking out Garra with an exploding knife. So, what do you think? |
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naruto fan 09812
 Posts: 499 |
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Naruto isn't a tatical fighter which have been express many times. Shikamaru he simply isn't. The example you brought about Neji disprove your theory because he have to use the Nine Tails Fox chakra to even have a chance against Neji. Because Neji blocks all his chakra points which prove the theory that he resort to tactics only when it's his last resort.
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Dargonxtc
 Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
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Keep in mind the Nine Tails gives him almost unlimited instantaneous red chakra in addition to his own blue chakra. One glaring example would be that he would not be able to summon that big toad without the Nine Tails. Also one could say that his training would not have been as effective as it was, as the Nine Tails gives him greater stamina than just about anybody. Which means he advanced further than others, due to that ability to put his determination to full use.
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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While it's true that the fox helps Naruto a great deal, and he could not have survived many fights without it, I almost wonder if it's existence in many cases makes Naruto lazy because he doesn't need to perform as well. Naruto tends to do his absolute best when everything else is used up, but if he didn't have the fox to fall back on perhaps he would have learned faster like Sasuke?
I'm not convinced Naruto couldn't be a capable ninja without the fox, but it's impossible to deny the fox had a positive effect in the specific situations as they existed in the show. It'd be totally different without the fox though, and I think Naruto himself would have developed much differently. |
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~~EpiC~~
 Posts: 243 |
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In some senses I agree with you and then in others I don't. First of all, based off of his origin alone, one could assume that there would be a point in his career (assuming that he never had Nine Tails of course) that he could become an exceptional ninja anyway. However, based on the fact that before he recognized the Nine Tails chakra, he was almost a total pushover, I want to disagree with you. But anyway, personally, I think the Nine Tails is totally crucial to Naruto's success as a ninja. Once he starts to take control of its powers, he gets an infinite supply of chakra and the ability to go "Super Saiyan", leveling the playing field against ninja Naruto at this stage probably couldn't even touch. I will agree though that one of Naruto's advantages is his strategic thinking (at times). Naruto only really has two tricks at this stage (rasengan and shadow clone) besides his Red Chakra supply. There is just no way he could win anything without playing a strategic game. |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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Keep in mind the reason he was an outcast and not respected was the Nine Tails. Without that hindrance everything in his life would have been much different.
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BrothersElric
 Posts: 1996 |
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Well you've also gotta remember that as explained by someone (can't really remember who said it) in one of his training sequences, Naruto's chakra and the Kyuubi's chakra don't mix very well, and Naruto has a really difficult time focusing his chakra because of this fact. So really, without the Kyuubi he'd be better off, at least in this area anyways. Granted he wouldn't have had a lot of other things going for him as well, such as the Kyuubi's power as well as his own determination to prove everyone wrong about him and his powerfully close bonds with his friends that are both always constantly driving him, he at least would have been better at this simple task, which would have really helped him develop his jutsu a lot better. But even still his emotional drives without the Kyuubi is debatable. Only problem is, I can't tell you why without giving away too many spoilers!
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Ktimene's Lover
 Posts: 2242 Location: Glendale, AZ (Proudly living in the desert) |
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An interesting comparison of whether or not my favorite Naruto character would be what he is or if he could even be so cool without the Nine Tailed Fox is Yugioh. Would Yugi be so good at dueling without the Pharaoh? In other words, could Yugi easily win a duel without his other self? (In an interesting note, I was watching Samurai Deeper Kyo today, and noticed how both Yugioh and Samurai Deeper Kyo both have the titled main characters sharing a body with the soul of a darker lookalike. That is, their doppleganger. Also, both pairs of main characters were voiced by Dan Green)
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7991 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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In my opinion this (Naruto) is one big drawback to the show. I don't really like the character because he's always technically cheating by using the 9 Tailed Fox's Chakra. He hardly ever wins by his own merrits and lacks the brainpower, and physical and spiritual skill to be a decent ninja with out the Fox, let alone be Hokage. He also never learns from his mistakes and keeps making them over and over again. However, I do admire his determination I guess.
I find the other characters more interesting. |
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Ohoni
Posts: 3421 |
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I think that Naruto needs both to be successful. I think that on a Genin-scale of 1 to 10, 1 being Sakura, 10 being Gaara, Sasuke and Neji being like 8 or 9, Naruto is about 8 or 9 as well. IF Naruto did not have his clever tactical mind to work with, he would still be a 7 or 8, just by overpowering anyone beneath him. This can be shown in the times that he's "hulked out", and still done ok. IF Naruto did not have his kyuubi chakra to heal him, strengthen him, and fuel his many clones and other big effects, he would be more of a 4-6, tops. This gap widens even further as the series progresses. In terms of overall tactics, Naruto IS very clever. I think that Shikamaru is clearly more clever, and I think the evidence is strong that Sasuke is also more capable, but Naruto is very good at taking people by surprise with his tactics, and I personally enjoy that element a lot more than when he just pummels people down, but it remains true that very few of his actual victories were due to his tactics, and of those, very few of them would have been achievable if he couldn't employ kyuubi chakra to fuel his tactic. Remember, it's not just the red chakra either, even his blue chakra is enhanced by the kyuubi, so any time his chakra becomes visible, or he generates more than a handful of kage bunshin, that's all kyyubi.
That's very difficult to judge. As Jiraiya noted at one point, Naruto's "confused chakra" would make it harder to learn things. As I noted on another board, Naruto has what would effectively be "chakra dyslexia", of sorts, which does make it harder for him to use his chakra-based abilities efficiently. How much better he would be within this learning disability is hard to judge.
Doesn't Yugi beat Yami one or more times over the course of the series? Still, perhaps having Yami inside him is just great training. |
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Nomeru
Posts: 93 |
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Naruto was held back by the kyuubi in a couple ways. For one, His teachers aside from iruka resented him, and were somewhat afraid of him. The other hinderance is that naruto couldnt control his own chakra well because of the kyuubi. I forget where it states this, but I know its stated somewhere in the series.
An example here is that he couldnt make a single clown, where as he should have been able to fairly easly. Naruto managed to learn the rasengan and master it without the use of the kyuubi, which is a great feat. Without kyuubi, naruto's chakra control would be much much better, however his total chakra would have been much less. He still could have mastered kage bushin, but he wouldnt be able to spam it everywhere like he does, or make thousands of them. |
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Vortextk
 Posts: 892 Location: Orlando, Fl |
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I do get sick of the nine tails very much. Thinking back to the first encounter with Zabuza, where Sasuke and Naruto devise an extremely effective tactic, and most fights with Naruto now seem pretty pointless.
His shadow clones won't ever do anything. He'll most likely miss with Rasengan. His basic hand to hand fighting is subpar since it never seems to achieve anything, ever. It seems like every fight he becomes worse and unable to win without the nine tails. I know it's stupid to hate on shounen action for getting annoyed at the "inner power" of the main character. I can hardly think of one, that I've seen, where the character doesn't have some amazing abilities/powers locked away that only come out at desperate times. But the writing seems amateurish just waiting for someone to want "to protect" or get pissed off before they can do a thing. |
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countchocula86
Posts: 159 |
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What are some examples of Narutos clever tactical mind? To me, at least, it seems like most of his victories are due to his Chakra and his persistant, never-give-up attitude. |
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Ohoni
Posts: 3421 |
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You know, I'd thought this too, but I checked back and the only evidence I can kind for this is a camment that Jiraiya makes in chaptrer 91, but that's relating to the bonus seal Orochimaru put on him, which only effected him during the second round of the chuunin exams (and was preventing him from walking on water properly). It can be assumed that before the fight with Orochimaru, and after that scene with Jiraiya, Naruto had perfectly ordinary use of his chakra (his standard chakra at least), so it's really not an excuse for him to not be able to do the same stuff as, say, Sakura.
Actually, Naruto would have had to do Rasengan totally differently without the Kyuubi's chakra (manifesting a kagebunshin and pouring chakra into it). He can only do it his way because he has a surplus to burn. Jiraiya's version is much more efficient and economical. And yeah, he could still use kagebunshin, but a lot of his more successful uses of the ability have involved spamming it, often in coordination with high-chakra abilities like rasengan. |
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BrothersElric
Posts: 1996 |
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Well the only one I can think of that did it and came before Naruto is DBZ. I know Ruroni Kenshin hinted at it, but it really wasn't anything more than Kenshin embracing his old murdering self over his changed, pacifist self. And he only did it like, once anyways. It seems to me like it wasn't even an issue in shounen until after Naruto with stuff like Bleach, Busou Renkin, ect. Unless there's something I'm forgetting that is....... |
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