Forum - View topicNEWS: Vic Mignogna Sues Funimation, Jamie Marchi, Monica Rial, Ronald Toye
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DerekL1963
Subscriber
Posts: 1119 Location: Puget Sound |
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No. That's not how it works. Vic filed suit, and Vic has to prove they were lying. And with the conspiracy claim, he not only only has to prove they deliberately lied - but that they cooperated with others in a concerted, deliberate, and knowing effort. Conspiracy is hard to prove in the best of cases, and the standards of proof are high in civil cases. To make myself abundantly clear: In America, the burden of proof lies with the accuser (Vic), not with the accused (Funimation, et al).
Even in Texas, the judges still have to stay (more-or-less) within the law lest they be reversed on appeal.
0.o "Defamation" literally means "damage to reputation". Suing someone for "defamation" literally means "the person filing suit has to prove that damage was done". |
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AmpersandsUnited
Posts: 633 |
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The big prolific case that comes to mind is the numerous victims of Harvey Weinstein have recorded their encounters with him and then filed police reports against him immediately after the encounters. |
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Alestal
Posts: 605 Location: Dallas, Texas |
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Yeah, probably not. Anime isn't exactly on the forefront of popular culture or politics... It was probably because Funimations offices are located in Flower Mound, which is in Tarrant Countys jurisdiction. |
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addiemon
Posts: 93 |
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Mmm, I get where you're coming from, but telling victims of harassment not to speak publicly about their harassment isn't great optics either. Company control over employees' (and contractors') social media presence is a very tricky topic. |
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Alestal
Posts: 605 Location: Dallas, Texas |
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Yes, but we have avenues for victims to go through to obtain justice. They made some bold claims and will have to back them up. Also, I have signed social media use policies many many times over the course of my career as a condition of my employment. Employment-at-will gives companies exclusive control over their policies and bear in mind that Texas is also a non-union state. |
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Animehermit
Posts: 964 Location: The Argama |
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Is it? Because not being invited to a thing is pretty tame. Also convention organizers can invite and not invite whomever they want. They don't "owe" Mignongna an invite.
You literally compared them. Even indirectly it's incredibly disingenuous to compare things like lynching to not being given acting roles and not being invited to a convention. Are you from the US? Because if you are you should know that lynching has a particularly racist history and unless Vic Mignogna was being hunted down by an unruly mob and physically attacked, then the comparison is extremely tacky and dishonest. Also the slippery slope is a fallacy for a reason. |
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addiemon
Posts: 93 |
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Funi might have one, but we don't know what it covers or how enforceable it really is. (Many such policies are written in overly broad language or have other issues.) I've lived and worked in Texas and signed plenty of employment agreements there. A lot of what you sign isn't legally enforceable (in Texas or elsewhere), but employees don't know that, so employers keep 'em in. But honestly, that's all beside the point; what I'm saying is that the optics of a company seeming to engage in actively silencing harassment victims would be terrible. (Lightly edited for clarity.) |
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Alestal
Posts: 605 Location: Dallas, Texas |
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[quote="addiemon"]
I understand what you are saying, however, Funimation was named in this lawsuit. Having those agreements on file at least shows that management was doing their due diligence in trying to protect the company and the employees from defamation/harassment. |
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El Hermano
Posts: 450 Location: Texas |
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That's probably what it boils down to at the end of the day, isn't it? It's not about what's legal, it's about social ramifications. People in this thread are genuinely upset Vic is filing a lawsuit against these people. Not because he has no legal ground to to defend his name, but because it's not the socially conscious thing to do. Him defying the accusations and saying they're lying and going to court to prove it is not the socially progressive thing to do. To believe victims without question. He should have just lied down and taken it, because it's the right thing to do to not challenge accusations levied against you. The sad part is you're probably right. Funimation should have told those people making 400 Tweets on the subject to stop escalating the situation and leaving incriminating evidence all over the place, but they knew if they did they would get blowback from their own and get accused of victim shaming, so they chose to say nothing instead.. And that might end up biting them in the butt because of it. |
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ZephyrVayu
Posts: 79 |
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Twisting my words again I see. I said it was sh*tty to uninvite him to an event he'd already been due to appear at. I can understand them not wanting to invite him to future events, if only for the bad PR it would encur. Regardless of what side the organizers fall on, that's just good business sense, can't judge them for it.
I want you to tell me where in there I compared being unvited to a convention to lynching. In a quote where I'm talking about false accusations in general, not even mentioning the Vic controversy. You've used a very common tactic, latching onto something minor I said (in this case my reference to historic lynchings) as a derailment tactic. "Look at this guy! He's comparing what's happening to Vic to black people who were lynched!" Grow up. Seriously. |
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Animehermit
Posts: 964 Location: The Argama |
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I mean, you already derailed it by even talking about this. Saying that believing things at face value is how we got lynchings. When the thing we are believing is multiple women accusing someone of sexual misconduct. That's dishonest. It's co-opting the oppression of someone else in order to make your point more legitimate. |
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xBTAx
Posts: 189 |
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Y’know, the posts you’re responding to here have made me realize something. For people who love to constantly shout about “innocent until proven guilty” (in contexts that have nothing to do with a court room), it’s almost funny how people think “the defendants will have to prove they didn’t defame him” is how this works. Cause that would mean they’d be assuming that the defendants here are guilty unless they can prove they’re innocent, lol. So you’d think it should be obvious to them that he’s the one who has to prove things here.[/i] |
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ZephyrVayu
Posts: 79 |
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You say "co-opting the oppression of someone else in order to make your point more legitimate", I say "using examples which help back up my point". We're not allowed to reference historic instances of oppression as examples anymore, even if they're relevent to the subject? You're latching onto the fact that I used to word "lynch" in an attempt to besmirch my entire character. I can see exactly what you're trying to do. But I stand by my earlier point. If this were 100 years ago, Vic Mignogna may very well have been lynched by an angry mob. Mob justice. That's what happens when large groups of angry people take things at face value and react on impulse. |
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GMArcturus
Posts: 56 |
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How many times does this have to be explained? Funimation is in Texas. Texas is an at-will employment state. Funimation can fire a VA for coughing too loud if they want. You have no point. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18394 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Already removed one post for directly insulting another user, and there could be more deletions coming. I don't care how strongly you disagree with someone and/or their position; that is unacceptable.
Also, let's be careful with the whole lynching thing, as that is spinning in an unpleasant direction. America's unfortunate history with lynchings is a perfect example that the whole rush-to-judgment attitude is hardly a phenomenon resulting from the advent of social media, but that's all the farther that such references should go because lynchings had much deeper racial and social implications than what are involved in this case. |
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