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NEWS: USA, Japan Propose Limits on Explicit Online Material


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Hon'ya-chan



Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Posts: 973
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:19 am Reply with quote
Looks like a good ammount of Wikipedia articles might also get hit. Namely: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolicon

Still, it also raises an interesting question: what about stuff like Gothic Lolita and all that jazz?
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burzmali



Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 143
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:45 am Reply with quote
Well of course Ron "95% of blacks are criminal" Paul voted against it, he wouldn't want to break his historic streak of failing to vote with the majority on a bill. The guy's a nutbar, what do you expect? Rolling Eyes

As to making lolicon illegal, it already is, see SAFE Act of 2003. Remember that Whorley guy with the lolicon on the government computer? Busted for loli. The government hasn't really bothered to go after people for loli, but if they do use the leverage the law provides to make sure someone can't wiggle out of associated kiddie porn charges.
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ArielTsuki



Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 178
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:09 am Reply with quote
Hon'ya-chan wrote:
Looks like a good ammount of Wikipedia articles might also get hit. Namely: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolicon

Still, it also raises an interesting question: what about stuff like Gothic Lolita and all that jazz?


There's nothing inherently sexual about GothLoli. GothLoli, the shortened name for Gothic Lolita, is just a fashion movement in Japan mimicking the fashion style and attitudes of Victorian England and the 80's punk movement. I'm pretty sure it won't come up in a CP investigation or whatnot.

burzmali wrote:
Well of course Ron "95% of blacks are criminal" Paul voted against it, he wouldn't want to break his historic streak of failing to vote with the majority on a bill. The guy's a nutbar, what do you expect? Rolling Eyes

As to making lolicon illegal, it already is, see SAFE Act of 2003. Remember that Whorley guy with the lolicon on the government computer? Busted for loli. The government hasn't really bothered to go after people for loli, but if they do use the leverage the law provides to make sure someone can't wiggle out of associated kiddie porn charges.


But there has been subsequent ruling on behalf of the Supreme Court that ruled the part of "virtual" CP as unconstitutional since the meaning was too broad and vague, and the fact there were no victims involved in 2006. The issue of lolicon legality is pretty vague at best.
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burzmali



Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 143
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:06 am Reply with quote
ArielTsuki wrote:
burzmali wrote:
Well of course Ron "95% of blacks are criminal" Paul voted against it, he wouldn't want to break his historic streak of failing to vote with the majority on a bill. The guy's a nutbar, what do you expect? Rolling Eyes

As to making lolicon illegal, it already is, see SAFE Act of 2003. Remember that Whorley guy with the lolicon on the government computer? Busted for loli. The government hasn't really bothered to go after people for loli, but if they do use the leverage the law provides to make sure someone can't wiggle out of associated kiddie porn charges.


But there has been subsequent ruling on behalf of the Supreme Court that ruled the part of "virtual" CP as unconstitutional since the meaning was too broad and vague, and the fact there were no victims involved in 2006. The issue of lolicon legality is pretty vague at best.


Actually, the court case preceded Whorley's conviction and the SAFE Act of 2003. Specifically, the SAFE Act of 2003 was intentionally worded to circumvent the Supreme Court ruling by lumping in lolicon as "obscene". Since obscenity isn't protected by the first amendment, as long as your loli fails a SLAPS test it's illegal.
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fxg97873



Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 211
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:29 am Reply with quote
burzmali wrote:
Well of course Ron "95% of blacks are criminal" Paul voted against it, he wouldn't want to break his historic streak of failing to vote with the majority on a bill. The guy's a nutbar, what do you expect? Rolling Eyes

As to making lolicon illegal, it already is, see SAFE Act of 2003. Remember that Whorley guy with the lolicon on the government computer? Busted for loli. The government hasn't really bothered to go after people for loli, but if they do use the leverage the law provides to make sure someone can't wiggle out of associated kiddie porn charges.


It's the PROTECT Act of 2003...

As for that statement attributed to Ron Paul, yes it was from his newsletter and attributed to him but it wasn't actually written by him.
It was written by one of his aides but he initially did not disown the statement for the following reason:


Texas Monthly Interview:
"They were never my words, but I had some moral responsibility for them . . . I actually really wanted to try to explain that it doesn't come from me directly, but they campaign aides said that's too confusing. 'It appeared in your letter and your name was on that letter and therefore you have to live with it.'"

Taking responsibility for the things you allow your name to be associated with. THAT'S integrity.

I certaintly couldn't have done that. Sadly, out of fear I would have disowned the statement immediately and fired as many people as possible to appease the political gods.

mk2000
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burzmali



Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 143
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:49 am Reply with quote
fxg97873 wrote:
burzmali wrote:
Well of course Ron "95% of blacks are criminal" Paul voted against it, he wouldn't want to break his historic streak of failing to vote with the majority on a bill. The guy's a nutbar, what do you expect? Rolling Eyes

As to making lolicon illegal, it already is, see SAFE Act of 2003. Remember that Whorley guy with the lolicon on the government computer? Busted for loli. The government hasn't really bothered to go after people for loli, but if they do use the leverage the law provides to make sure someone can't wiggle out of associated kiddie porn charges.

It's the PROTECT Act of 2003...

Yup, my bad, the acronyms start to blur after a while. Someone should tell Congress to lay off the Final Fantasy games Wink

fxg97873 wrote:

Taking responsibility for the things you allow your name to be associated with. THAT'S integrity.

I certaintly couldn't have done that. Sadly, out of fear I would have disowned the statement immediately and fired as many people as possible to appease the political gods.

mk2000

At the risk of turning this into a Ron Paul thread, I'll point out that a racist with integrity is still a racist. But hey, if it wins you votes in the tinfoil and pointy hat crowds...
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ArielTsuki



Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 178
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:01 pm Reply with quote
burzmali wrote:

Actually, the court case preceded Whorley's conviction and the SAFE Act of 2003. Specifically, the SAFE Act of 2003 was intentionally worded to circumvent the Supreme Court ruling by lumping in lolicon as "obscene". Since obscenity isn't protected by the first amendment, as long as your loli fails a SLAPS test it's illegal.


No, I know about the 2002 Supreme Court ruling on that particular one, this is the one from 2006.

Wiki wrote:

On April 6, 2006, the arrest of one Michael Williams for child pornography was upheld by the United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit, but the portion of the arrest which pertained to the PROTECT Act was overturned. Specific cartoon depictions of what appears to be a minor engaging in overt sexual intercourse (not merely sexually explicit) were deemed insufficient to actually fulfill the requirements of the PROTECT Act, as the content described in subsections (i) and (ii) of § 2252A(a)(3)(B) is not constitutionally protected, speech that advertises or promotes such content does have the protection of the First Amendment. Accordingly, § 2252A(a)(3)(B) was held to be unconstitutionally overbroad. The Eleventh Circuit further held that the law was unconstitutionally vague, in that it did not adequately and specifically describe what sort of speech was criminally actionable.[49]


That was what I was talking about. Lolicon may not be legal but it isn't illegal either. At this point, it's in a very vague hole right now.
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hentai4me



Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Posts: 1313
Location: England. Robin is so Cute!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:05 pm Reply with quote
It's pretty much irrelevant if he is racist or not. All that matters is that he is not discriminatory or is not allowed to be. He can hate blacks as much as he wants, curse the Jews and run in fear from any backpack carrying Muslim he wants. As long as he doesn't make it difficult to get jobs, see justice, equality, pay, housing for those same groups and all the other factors that determine our lives it becomes irrelevant.

For example I could hate the French with a passion, as long as I see that that is racist and don't act to make it difficult for a French person to get a job at my company, limit their career development unfairly, pass them over for pay raises or turn to his pay packet first in times of less affluence then all is fine.

More worrying though is if he 1. doesn't see himself as racist or 2. surrounds himself with aides and other important political positions who are also racist. Having a racist leader but surrounding him with fair aides and staff and having an independent group to watch for racist policies should keep all well and good and keep the racism in check.
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burzmali



Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 143
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:35 pm Reply with quote
ArielTsuki wrote:

Wiki wrote:

On April 6, 2006, the arrest of one Michael Williams for child pornography was upheld by the United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit, but the portion of the arrest which pertained to the PROTECT Act was overturned. Specific cartoon depictions of what appears to be a minor engaging in overt sexual intercourse (not merely sexually explicit) were deemed insufficient to actually fulfill the requirements of the PROTECT Act, as the content described in subsections (i) and (ii) of § 2252A(a)(3)(B) is not constitutionally protected, speech that advertises or promotes such content does have the protection of the First Amendment. Accordingly, § 2252A(a)(3)(B) was held to be unconstitutionally overbroad. The Eleventh Circuit further held that the law was unconstitutionally vague, in that it did not adequately and specifically describe what sort of speech was criminally actionable.[49]


That was what I was talking about. Lolicon may not be legal but it isn't illegal either. At this point, it's in a very vague hole right now.


Ah, but Whorley was convicted of violating Section 1466A, not 2252A. That case seems to imply that distributing loli as "an obscene visual depiction of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct" per Section 2252A(a)(3)(B) is constitutional vague. That makes sense, the wording "... advertises, promotes, presents, distributes, or solicits through the mails, ... , including by computer, any material or purported material in a manner that reflects the belief, or that is intended to cause another to believe, that the material ... contains an obscene visual depiction of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct", could be interpted very widely.

But, in the end, that affects Section 2252A, not 1466A, and my point stands.
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fxg97873



Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 211
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:51 pm Reply with quote
burzmali wrote:
fxg97873 wrote:
burzmali wrote:
Well of course Ron "95% of blacks are criminal" Paul voted against it, he wouldn't want to break his historic streak of failing to vote with the majority on a bill. The guy's a nutbar, what do you expect? Rolling Eyes

As to making lolicon illegal, it already is, see SAFE Act of 2003. Remember that Whorley guy with the lolicon on the government computer? Busted for loli. The government hasn't really bothered to go after people for loli, but if they do use the leverage the law provides to make sure someone can't wiggle out of associated kiddie porn charges.

It's the PROTECT Act of 2003...

Yup, my bad, the acronyms start to blur after a while. Someone should tell Congress to lay off the Final Fantasy games Wink

fxg97873 wrote:

Taking responsibility for the things you allow your name to be associated with. THAT'S integrity.

I certaintly couldn't have done that. Sadly, out of fear I would have disowned the statement immediately and fired as many people as possible to appease the political gods.

mk2000

At the risk of turning this into a Ron Paul thread, I'll point out that a racist with integrity is still a racist. But hey, if it wins you votes in the tinfoil and pointy hat crowds...


Well, I think his interview pretty much said it all but as a final statement from me on the Ron Paul issue, I will say that both my parents are originally from Mexico and I am also part black...

mk2000
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15573
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:13 pm Reply with quote
On a related note, the war is forcing Iraqi children into prostitution, but they're not white, so who cares? Rolling Eyes
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hentai4me



Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Posts: 1313
Location: England. Robin is so Cute!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:54 pm Reply with quote
No, they're not in America and thus not within the jurisdiction of American laws.

At least part of the blame for that must be placed at the feet of Damascus's clubs for hiring children to dance in their strip clubs and work as prostitutes and blame placed at the feet of Iraqi, Saudi and Syrian citizens for making use of the 'services' being provided.

The American invasion caused the displacement, but it did not cause the prostitution, that was a combination of Syrian incompetence in dealing with the refugees and the climate of the region in which those people fled.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15573
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:01 pm Reply with quote
hentai:
Quote:

The American invasion caused the displacement, but it did not cause the prostitution,


So they'd be prostituting themselves anyway?

Quote:
that was a combination of Syrian incompetence in dealing with the refugees


Yes, because Syria should have to take responsibility for our mistake.

Quote:
s and the climate of the region in which those people fled.


The climate was created through our war.
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The Xenos



Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Posts: 1519
Location: Boston
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:59 am Reply with quote
Yes, clearly America is to blame for the treatment of women in Iraq and the middle east. Rolling Eyes
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Bara_Megami



Joined: 08 May 2004
Posts: 106
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:42 pm Reply with quote
This act has pretty much nothing to do with anime or manga - except for those involved in lolicon. I really don't think that this should be newsworthy on ANN, since it is implying that all anime is loli. This isn't a witch hunt as someone put it - for the majority of the world, thinking sexually about minors (I'm talking under teens) is really creepy, especially since children don't think sexually. People don't understand, nor do they want to know your reason for looking up underage anime girls to beat off to.

I am SO tired of lolicon news being put on ANN! It's just asking for debates to start, and an anime forum is hardly the most appropriate place to discuss American politics!!
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