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SilverTalon01
Joined: 02 Apr 2012
Posts: 2416
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 Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:16 am
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| Quote: | | This episode's small peek at how this dystopia functions is very much Science-Fiction 101, and while I would like DARLING to be a little more experimental with its social commentary in general, I'm equally wary of the way the show seems to be equating a traditional heterosexual pair in a nuclear family with the “correct” form of human experience. Nothing the show has done so far has been explicitly homophobic or specifically emphasized child-rearing, but the hints we've gotten about what lies ahead seem to venerate the benefits of heterosexual romance and reproduction without giving much thought to any satisfying deviations from that norm. |
And it doesn't really make sense for them to show deviations at this point. The 'adults' clearly do things for efficiency. They don't even seem to have personal feelings. That 'adult' woman was living with someone, but I don't see how your take away is traditional nuclear family. She basically said it was on a whim. It is more like a room mate at best. If they don't make decisions on their emotions, you will either end up with everyone on their own (which it sounds like is how most of their society works) or pairing for reproduction (which they probably don't do naturally anyway).
It could make sense for there to be some non-heterosexual romance in the future here, but we have to wait for the main cast to realize what the society they're protecting is exactly and decide they want no part of it. They're currently just following the will of the adults, and there is nothing suggesting 'adults' even feel sexual attraction or substantial emotions let alone make decisions based on that.
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amc9988
Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Posts: 52
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:59 am
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wtf MAL?? Is this an anime review or lgbt in anime review?
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Chrono1000
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:05 pm
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| James_Beckett wrote: | | The nuclear family isn't outtdated (I came from one myself, and I'm happily married) , but I would argue that it is a bit out of date to point to the heterosexual nuclear family as the paragon of the human experience, while paying little to no attention to other, equally viable modes of living. |
In terms of living than almost anything works but when it comes to reproduction than the choices are somewhat limited. At the moment that seems to relate to what the Franxx represent.
| James_Beckett wrote: | | Again, the show hasn't yet solidified all of its ideas, but has what feel like is a fairly clear trajectory in regards to its thematic intent. I won't hate the show for having whatever message it wants to have, but I certainly reserve the right to be critical of it. |
Well you have said that the show is not explicitly homophobic which is nicer than what feminists on Twitter have been saying. I am just amused that lack of evidence is now considered proof of guilt which is Salem witch trial logic. If the show has Ikuno die tragically because she likes Ichigo than I might understand the accusations but so far I see no indication that anything like that will happen. In fact Ikuno has been shown in a positive light since she has to put up with Mitsuru.
| VerQuality wrote: | | The society we see in the Plantation takes that a step further, emotional needs and desire are fulfilled by machines as well, which removes anything we could identify as a 'relationship' between partners in this society. Living together is treated as not much different than deciding you want a lamp in the living room, and given APE's drive for conformity, it's likely even this much self-expression is unusual. |
The dystopian society seems to be a combination of ideological conformity and social individualism which have replaced family bonds with an authoritarian government. The people in the city seem to know what the parasites are and how they are used.
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Chrysostomus
Joined: 11 Mar 2015
Posts: 335
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:53 pm
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It seems that adults are a social class, you don't become an adult by aging.
OR adults might be even more than just a social class, like an entirely different subspecies. The medical device Granny uses on Zorome doesn't even work on him until she uses "pet" mode, whatever that's supposed to mean. In any case, we can say there are physiological differences between them.
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Chrono1000
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Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:02 pm
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| Chrysostomus wrote: | | It seems that adults are a social class, you don't become an adult by aging.
OR adults might be even more than just a social class, like an entirely different subspecies. The medical device Granny uses on Zorome doesn't even work on him until she uses "pet" mode, whatever that's supposed to mean. In any case, we can say there are physiological differences between them. |
There have been hints over the course of the show that all of the parasites are part Klaxosaur. The parasites were all raised in a facility called the garden, they are the only ones that can pilot the Franxx which use the same energy source that the Klaxosaurs eat, they have yellow blood cells, when Hiro recovered from the blue infection his eyes briefly glowed red, none of the parasites become adults, the people of the city avoided them since they were worried about contamination, and the medical device had to be set to pet mode to treat Zorome.
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cescpistol
Joined: 21 Mar 2018
Posts: 1
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:46 pm
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What's up with the reviewer (James Beckett) wanting to gay things up? He's barking up the wrong tree. Not everyone wants to watch Yuri on Ice. To each his own. But it's really annoying that he repeatedly brings it up. It's natural selection for chrissake.
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jr240483
Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 4429
Location: New York City,New York,USA
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:24 pm
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| cescpistol wrote: | | What's up with the reviewer (James Beckett) wanting to gay things up? He's barking up the wrong tree. Not everyone wants to watch Yuri on Ice. To each his own. But it's really annoying that he repeatedly brings it up. It's natural selection for chrissake. |
i dont think the reviewer is trying to imply that. its that this series is pretty much built on incorrectness so he have to repeatedly bring it up. especially for newcomers of the series.
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Cptn_Taylor
Joined: 08 Nov 2013
Posts: 925
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:30 am
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| jr240483 wrote: | |
i dont think the reviewer is trying to imply that. its that this series is pretty much built on incorrectness so he have to repeatedly bring it up. especially for newcomers of the series. |
What incorrectness would that be ? That girls are naturally attracted to boys and boys to girls ?
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Mad_Scientist
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Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 3013
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:39 pm
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| Cptn_Taylor wrote: |
| jr240483 wrote: | |
i dont think the reviewer is trying to imply that. its that this series is pretty much built on incorrectness so he have to repeatedly bring it up. especially for newcomers of the series. |
What incorrectness would that be ? That girls are naturally attracted to boys and boys to girls ? |
Well, partially, because that is in fact, incorrect. A large amount of girls are attracted to boys, and plenty of boys are attracted to girls, but some aren't, and there's nothing "unnatural" or invalid or inferior about that.
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Scherzo
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 149
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Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:52 pm
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I think the newest episode went a good way to alleviating my concerns. The fact that Nana didn't think a Girl-to-Girl Franxx connection was a complete waste of time makes me think it's definitely possible; my guess is that it's Ichigo not believing that sort of bond between girls is possible that kept it from happening. And obviously Kokoro and Mitsuru getting some development is very welcome, didn't they have a beat together a few episodes back in the garden together? I think it was during the Battle of the Sexes episode.
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Hiroki not Takuya
Joined: 17 Apr 2012
Posts: 2627
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Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:08 am
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^Yes, they have hinted Kokoro/Mitsuru a couple of times already and it's pissing me off. They aren't a good couple and Futoshi and her were "billed" as the best pair, so why have her accept a marriage proposal and then bail for the moody jerk all in the same episode? Reeks of bad writing unless the story goes a much different direction than initially indicated. Speaking of which, if the show follows the pattern, they have effectively hinted three times now that 02/Hiro will be split up which will cause me further rage if carried out. I was having some fun imagining Mitsuru "doggie style" with Hiro at the reigns for a little though! Also disappointed not to see Ikuno with Ichigo  But then I guess one would have Goto/Mitsuru which is a definite no-go...
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zrnzle500
Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 3768
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Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:41 am
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^What makes you feel that the decision reflects bad writing? Kokoro, Futoshi, and Mitsuru all come out more developed and interesting characters as a result, and in Mitsuru’s case more likable. While I think Kokoro and Futoshi were a better pair, as pilots and otherwise, Kokoro and Mitsuru and Futoshi and Ikuno are much better pairs than Mitsuru and Ikuno were, and I’d say it would be worse writing if such an incompatible and frequently toxic pairing stayed together.
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Scherzo
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 149
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Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:40 am
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I don't think it's appropriate to say that every Stamen-Pistil pair is necessarily romantic. I didn't get that implication from Kokoro and Mitsuru; I think they're definitely more of a platonic friend sort of relationship. I'm also glad to see Kokoro sort of come into her own a bit and wiggle her way out of Futoshi's Nice Guy schtick (Also I think I now know all the pilots names now, finally!).
I'm getting strong vibes that next episode will be a spotlight on Ikuno, given what happened this episode. I wouldn't be surprised if Miku gets an episode to herself (or with Zorome) soon, as she's basically the only character yet to be spotlighted (Unless you consider her role as the female ringleader in the Battle of the Sexes a spotlight, which I honestly don't).
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Scherzo
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 149
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Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:16 pm
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@James Beckett; like I said before, the fact that Nana didn't dismiss the idea of a Pistil-Pistil connection out of hand is an encouraging sign to me. To me the failure doesn't say anything about the 'actual' possibility of the connection, but rather the hang ups of the people forging the connection. For example, the reason why Hiro couldn't connect before Zero-Two is because he didn't believe himself to be someone worth connecting to; likewise, Ichigo's inability to see a connection between women being capable of powering a Franxx (and to a certain extent, despite her claims to the contrary, Ikuno's inability to share her real feelings) are what kept it from working in their experiment.
And like I said before I don't think it's necessary to read Kokoro and Mitsuru's connection this episode as romantic/erotic, or that the takeaway from the seeming rejection by Hiro is that 'gay romantic feelings are self-destructive'. It was more that human relationships are messy and that we can hurt each other when we come into contact (the famous Hedgehog's Dilemna of NGE). For Kokoro's part, I don't feel her advances came across as romantic so much as 'motherly', which is an entire can of worms to itself, but I think even if it was romantic or nurturing, it was a step to form her own relationships on her own terms instead of being a passive recipient of Futoshi's head pats.
My read on the episode was honestly kind of the opposite of yours; I saw a legitimate opening of what Franxx pairs can be, beyond romantic/erotic heterosexuality. Whether it completely acknowledges the inherent goodness of these impulses, I still cannot be entirely sure, but I don't think anything in this episode gave indication that it wouldn't.
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Chrysostomus
Joined: 11 Mar 2015
Posts: 335
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Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:26 pm
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| Scherzo wrote: | | And like I said before I don't think it's necessary to read Kokoro and Mitsuru's connection this episode as romantic/erotic, |
Oooooh boy are you sure about that?
Here I was hoping that this show would forget about Kokoro and Mitsuru's blossoming bond, but then this episode comes in. Ever since she picked up that book about motherhood, and has started to talk about babies more often, I am getting some major OJ Simpson vibes.
That's gonna be one hell of a "Futoshi" episode.
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