Forum - View topicDiversity in anime.
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Guile
Posts: 595 |
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He probably got a lot of criticism for accepting it in the first place and had to step down. It'd be more surprising if a black or other minority actor did that for a white or Japanese character. It seems actual Japanese anime character being white is defended and okay but Asians in American made media being whitewashed is far more controversal. |
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Sky Captain
 Posts: 28 |
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Here's my honest opinion on this as a person of color (Afro-Canadian): The people wanting this need to get up off of their asses and create said anime with said diversity, not expect the Japanese to do it for them. This would mean having what Aaron McGruder did in creating The Boondocks, and doing that to get said project off of the ground, not just begging Japanese studios and creators for something to be done. And that can be done NOW with standard Western American CGI, as was done with Home, if one wants. But again, the people in question have to want to do this. Make no mistake, as a person of color, I want to see more diversity myself, but I want to see people do something about it and not just talk about it. Doing something about it makes all the difference. |
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MagnusRex
Posts: 3 |
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I don't watch anime for racial diversity. I don't expect something created in Japan to fit my need to see more characters that look like me. Now, I do like when I see a black character and they're not a full racist caricature. Which is way less of an issue today. Just look at those 1968 images of Cyborg 008. Or even the few black characters that have appeared in Dragon Ball. Which is understandable considering the age of the creators, and the cartoons they most likely saw as children. Which were most likely racist as hell. The few black characters I see in anime now, they're drawn pretty normally, and that fixes my black character in anime itch.
Personally, I think if we want to see more people of color in animation, then we need to make it. The reality though is that black culture doesn't really embrace black nerd culture. It's easy to say that we need to make the stuff we want to watch, but it's most likely not going to get made. Or it will get made, but it will be on Adult Swim. |
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MacTad
 Posts: 3 Location: Cleveland, OH |
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I must admit that I’ve only been an anime fan for the last 10 years or so, although I grew up watching anime without knowing it. I logged on today because I wanted to research the American anime executive I seemed to remember as black Japanese and had planned to start a thread of my own when I saw this. I’d like to briefly reply.
I respect the Japanese desire to remain homogenous. I read an answer somewhere above that states it isn’t for us to pass judgement on that desire and the possible lack of diversity. I agree and I don’t agree. To the collective Japanese mind, racial and ethnic diversity is bad. That would be regrettable, but acceptable IF anime weren’t being sold all over the world. That is ALL OVER THE WORLD as in with the expectation that people of different ethnicities will be viewing the product. If diverse people are going to put money in the pockets of Japanese companies, we have a right to reasonable expectations of inclusion. I’m in no way saying that all anime has to have diverse characters. I am saying that there are ways to include characters of different ethnicities to make stories richer. It also wouldn’t hurt Japanese society to learn a little something about other cultures outside of hip-hop. Not all black people are into hip-hop at all. It’s a stereotype. I’d venture to say all Japanese people are not into J-POP either. Nor, I’d guess, do all Chinese, Korean or Thai people eat dogs. (Thank God.) To summarize, yes. I’d welcome more diversity. To the person who said those who are complaining about the lack of diversity should make diverse animation, I have a comment and a challenge. Saying that people who want to see diversity should make it or shut up is simplistic at best. Many people do not have the talent or resources to create what they’d like to see. I barely draw stick figures, for example, even though my mother was a very talented artist. What about that poor kid who has tremendous talent but no access to computers or publishers to get her work out? Not everyone is relatively wealthy in this world. Indeed, MOST people in the world are not wealthy enough to have the access all of us have. Think about this: The Global Citizen Festival concert had people begging for money for latrines so that women wouldn’t have to walk into fields to use the bathroom and risk being attacked. They talked about the FACT many women don’t have access to feminine hygiene products and that keeps girls out of school and women from working. It is easy to forget that we live in the developed world and most people do not. Please, I ask that anyone reading this take into consideration that they are lucky. Other people simply are not. That being said, there is an animation project being developed about the life of Yasuke, the first black samurai who was taken to Japan by a Jesuit priest in the 16th Century. There, he met Oda Nobunaga, a warlord who took an interest in him. Yasuke became one of his respected retainers and was given a home and wives/concubines. The Yasuke animation project (as opposed to the live-action Lionsgate project) is being produced by Avaloy Studios out of Atlanta. The founder is a black man, so he’s definitely trying to make the kind of animation of interest to black people. He’s looking for funding and has a campaign on Hatchfund. Here is the URL: https://www.hatchfund.org/project/Yasuke. If anyone who believes in the idea that black people (or, presumably, any non-Japanese PoC) shouldn’t open our mouths or have an opinion about diversity in anime, I suggest they practice what they preach and give money to this small animation company for this project. If we are going to be admonished to shut up and take it while these Japanese companies make money from us, then it is only fair. |
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Sky Captain
Posts: 28 |
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There's a big difference between the poor people mentioned and the (relatively) wealthy (compared to said poor people) fans of anime and manga (plus other media) demanding diversity. They have the opportunity to do what they're clamoring about if they want to compared to the poor people who badly need the latrines and the feminine hygiene products. They need to take to heart the DIY ethos of the punk rock movement of the late '70's/early-to-mid-'80's and use that to make the media that they want to see.
It's great to see him do this, but what he's doing needs to be replicated in triplicate by a lot more people of color in North America than just him, with the same methods that he's using to get the funds for his laudable project about Yasuke. If I can personally contribute to this project, I'll do so. And no, I don't want anybody to 'shut up', per se, but I do expect those who are capable of doing this to do it. That's how Jambalaya Studios (The Proud Family) Aron McGruder, and the ladies who started this record company (as well as countless others) did it, and it worked out for them a whole lot. [quote="Guile"]
The question is, will they be able to find an Asian American actor who can take on the role and not get overshadowed boy the other cast members. |
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Aca Vuksa
Posts: 643 Location: Nis, Serbia |
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There is an one character i know from my native country, it Irina Jelavic from Assaniation Classroom, and she is from Serbia.
I am so happy about manga creator made one a character who is from Serbia, but i'd love to see more Serbian character in anime too!!! |
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Infel
Posts: 12 |
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1. Diversity for diversity's sake is shallow tokenism. Just let creators make what they want without trying to have unrelated politics and social issues shoehorned in. 2. I don't watch anime because of the main characters race or gender, I watch if I find the plot interesting. |
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James_xeno
 Posts: 49 Location: Here |
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Diversity?! There is already basically a genre for just about everything you could imagine. 1. Do I personally think it needs more? Or non personally? A big, major part of the reason I personally like to watch anime, and read manga etc. Is because of the unique nature, style and character of it coming from a totally different culture. (not to mention the series set in real, or close to real life japan.) I don't want other outside forces trying to push things in or out of it... EVER! Especially for political or ideological demands, fads and busyboding! While the latter sounds like it could be a little more complex of an issue. It really isn't when you think about it. Anime and manga is from japan, and is first and foremost for japan and the japanese. So when someone (from outside) asks if ____blank____ "needs to be changed/done", what they really are saying is "their ______ over in japan doesn't meet up to our self-attributed subjective standards over here, do they need to make changes to better appease our desires?...." And (i'm sorry, know some wont agree and will argue that it doesn't.. but that quite literally is bullshit when it comes right down to it) pretty much implicitly also implies "so should we try to talk/shame/browbeat/force them to make the changes we want a/o demand?" So that's a no and a no. The person above me said it best. "Diversity for diversity's sake is shallow tokenism. Just let creators make what they want without trying to have unrelated politics and social issues shoehorned in" 2. Yes, what kind of question is that? Even within the context of the first! But if you're talking about after something was nonsensically forced or such.. Then probably not, no. (also because I know that wouldn't be the end of the nonsense forced in -already- anyway and that doing so would only help support that type of thing more in the future.) after reading through more of this thread.. ugh.. Word of advice. You can't insistently bring up an issue, and then get upset or mock everybody who disagrees with you, for caring about something as "small" and unimportant as said issue, themselves! Because you come of sounding pretty stupid and contemptible. Pretty much same goes for that tired old long debunked theory (which is giving it too much credit really) in some extreme parts, that thinks that anime/manga characters are "eurocentic" or all based off of "white people". That was an utterly ridiculous argument when first made, by utterly ridiculous extreme ideologues of the usual laughable nature. You aren't going to find many japanese who doesn't think that in-story japanese characters are racially japanese in depiction. (and the few you do find, are more then likely the ones informed and believers of said nonsense ^ before hand) Also, if you're going to claim that we "need" forced diversity. Then you better start explaining why it is that this (or any) media needs, should need or is helped by having it to begin with. It's not the job of those who disagree or don't care, to prove the other way. And no, "more people enjoying it" is not a reason why it would be better, let alone "need it"! "more people" and "so everyone can" are straight out the last thing I ever want to hear about something ~90% of the time because of forced issues like this. Bland, safe, emotionless, heartless, drivel is what comes out of most such things.
I'm with you there.. I think lol |
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NearEasternerJ1
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"Diversity" is a Westernism and cannot be applied to Japanese society. Usually, the term is used to refer to concepts that have characters who are only white, straight, Christian, Jewish, middle class, cis, so on and so forth. This doesn't make sense in a Japanese context. Because Japanese people are not white and don't care about religion, sexuality or gender. Furthermore, Japan is ethnically homogeneous. It should also be noted that there is no correlation between skin colour and culture, otherwise you'd have to argue that Bulgarians and Spaniards are identical just because they both are considered to be "white". Kuwaitis and Saudis share a border, religion, genetics and language, but they are both very different, so what about differences between Europe? In fact, Britain does not consider non-British whites to be ethnic minorities and non-British whites are not entitled to services that cater to "ethnic minorities" even though they obviously ARE ethnic minorities. Terms like "diversity" don't mean much at the end of the day.
Perhaps we should stop holding Japan to arbitrary Western norms. No, Japan has a lot of problems, but we don't want it to be like the obsessive West. |
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TrevRockOne
Posts: 2 |
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I don't want more diversity in anime. Anime is a refuge from all that.
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鏡
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I too like to take refuge from diversity. Honestly, I wish I could escape it without watching anime. I think we should start an IRL community to take refuge in as well. That way, as anime becomes corrupted, we can take refuge in our new diversity-free organization or state, and just ignore all the es jay double u attempts to inject ID politics into our media. What do you think? |
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Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6607 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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Variety is un uqualified good in any artistic endevour.
Firstly, it broadens the audience and thus makes the endeavour more accessible and thereby more profitable. It may allow to the producers to sell the product more cheaply. A large factor why anime releases in Japan are so expensive is that their market is so small. Secondly, variety makes anime more interesting. I want my expectations challenged, not confirmed. Removing variety, removes interest. I wish there were more anime set in other countries, with protagonists of other nationalities, as it did frequently in the 1970s. Japan has a unique place in the world with approaches that I find attractive. I'd love to see their take on things beyond their border. Thirdly, when someone argues against variety in anime they are, in effect, valorising conformity. But, whose conformity? I'm sure that both of you, 鏡 and TrevRockOne, have very different and ideocentric ideas of what constitutes the standard anime model, if one existed. Either way, if anime conformed forever to your model you would soon tire of it. What's more, as time goes by, your tastes and preferences will change, whether you expect it or not. A diverse industry will increase the likelihood that it will continue to cater to you. Fourthly, creativity very often comes from the fringes. Blocking the fringe will impede anime's creative drive. Lastly, anime changes, whether you like it or not. If you don't embrace diversity, it will leave you behind. |
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鏡
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I can't speak for TrevRockOne, but I imagine we're on pretty much the same page, and I'm sure he (and maybe others in this thread) would echo my sentiments exactly. Anime is a shelter from diversity and to take that away would be a great loss. Honestly I wish diversity would leave us behind.
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Errinundra
Moderator
Posts: 6607 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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Do you mind if I ask what is threatening about difference? And if you don't mind, what is threatening about it?
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鏡
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Oh there's nothing threatening about it. I just don't like my art diluted by PC culture.
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