Forum - View topicAnswerman - Why Isn't More Anime Shown On American TV?
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EricJ2
Posts: 4016 |
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Thing is, 70's-80's anime (have to include Battle of the Planets as "70's") wasn't respected as anime, and that it was Japanese put it in the same ethnicist dismissal as something cheap that was "Made in Japan". Anything dubbed was goofy Godzilla, and Speed Racer and Kimba didn't help the image any. At least someone here remembers telling a non-fan about anime for the first time, and hearing "Oh, I remember Speed Racer!" How many of us are old enough to remember getting into a discussion with one of the new Robotech-cult kids angrily trying to spread the word about how much "better" Japanese cartoons were than American ones, realizing they weren't being hip-ironic, and looking at them as if they'd gone INSANE?: Robotech, Star Blazers, Voltron, and maybe a few others I've forgotten, were considered cheap...Low-rent, rinky-dink cheap. Harmony Gold's dubbing wasn't top of the line, Japan's own animation wasn't exactly the best in the mecha-obsessed 80's, and the combination of bad lip-synching and clunky Carl Macek translations with "the yap-yap mouths" of 80's anime was laughable compared to the more corporate domestic animation of He-Man or the Disney Afternoon. If you were a toon fan, you might've tuned to laugh at the technical Godzilla-cheesiness of a Funny-Talking Furr'ner Country trying to be Star-Wars American. And then, even if you were curious to follow a show a friend might have been talking about, you didn't know which one you were watching: If you'd never seen a Japanese show before, you literally couldn't tell the Yamato apart from the SDF-1, and you thought whatever poor backwater UHF station was showing the three series (the more expensive stations could afford the Care Bears and Thundercats) was showing it over and over...Those Voltron lions just always seemed to be ON one station whenever I clicked channels in the afternoon, or at least some other wide-eyed yap-yapping teen robot-pilot cadet with crazy hair that I thought was from Voltron. And then...the faithful would go into their big overzealous fight-the-power argument of "At least it's intelligent because people really die on Robotech, not like the insulting Yogi Bear and Flintstones crap they show to KIDS over here!" Er, Yogi? Flintstones, you say? Say, my old friend, why don't you just follow me over to this back alley for a second, so I can explain a few things about US cartoon fans... Anime had to get its mainstream recognition the hard way, back when Sailor Moon could still pretend that it didn't come from somewhere else, but watching the "real" stuff on smuggled VHS at the clubs had already taken more of a cult foothold that wasn't as interested in a "rebellion" to drive off the mainstream. |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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Last edited by Mohawk52 on Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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I know others have mentioned it before me, but Latin America and mainland Europe, in those decades, did not produce a lot of domestic animation and instead acquired shows from other countries. As a result, the kids there, and the network executives, grew used to shows from other countries. In those regions, anime would've had the same status and would be shown side-by-side with animation from the United States, or United Kingdom, or Canada. By contrast, in these countries, particularly the United States, there's enough domestic output to satisfy the general population, and the people running the networks are used to doing things their way and on their terms.
It's a similar deal with when people adopt a puppy: They're cute and they want to raise something without realizing the commitment they'll have to spend for the next many years. There are a lot of tragic stories about abandoned dogs because they grew up and were no longer cute and small, way too many for me to count. You can't just abandon a human child though (not that it hasn't happened) and not get in trouble over it. Have you seen how elaborate and expensive 1st birthday parties can get? The infant isn't even aware of what's going on. The birthdays are clearly for those parents. They're excited about their baby. After a few years, however, the novelty will wear off, and you get the parents we see who have grown bored of their own children.
Disneyland? That's kind of expensive though. I commonly see parents use TV and the Internet as babysitters because they're readily available, and in the case of TV (and retail businesses and libraries), free to use. From my experiences, lazy parents also tend to be cheap parents. |
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belvadeer
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Believe me, I've seen more abandoned puppy and dog videos and read more stories about them than a person should. It both breaks my heart and angers me greatly when people do that to such sweet animals, especially when the dog starts chasing the car thinking it's a game. The sad fact is you're right, it has happened before with human children. As for the first birthday question, yes I have. It's called pretentious preening parents. It's even worse than spoiled sweet sixteen girls freaking out and screaming the world is ending because they didn't get the car they wanted.
When I said worse extent, I didn't mean going to Disneyland every day. I meant the entitled behavior they exhibit elsewhere is even worse there, to the point parents are the spoiled ones and use their own children to get what they want. They even act like the costumed employees are supposed to teach their kids morals, because it's Disney. Trust me, I've seen some videos of such types, as well as read blogs of former employees who put up with the worst types. Last edited by belvadeer on Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Spawn29
Posts: 554 |
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Pokemon became popular around the same time when Toonami became big in 1998. Toonami was playing re-runs of DBZ in 1998 after it ended on syndication. In 1998, we were still living in a Ghost in the Shell, Ninja Scroll, and Perfect Blue dominated landscape at that point. Titles like Serial Experiments Lain had just come out around that time and was the next big thing. It was not until the mid 2000's when the Pokemon and Toonami kids took over the anime fandom.
And these people opinions are supposed to be taken as objective fact and of some relevance why? .[/quote] I mention that because a lot of people act like that everyone was into Pokemon back in the late 90's. Sure to younger kids, Pokemon was a big deal, but anyone over the age of 13 did not care about Pokemon. |
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BakuformerAnime
Posts: 28 |
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I guess we should wait for another anime boom because I would love to see more anime on tv. Moe and Slice-of-life genres are examples of the series desperately to be needed in the western anime industry. Because Toonami only accepts action, Syfy also accepted action, Disney accepts kids anime like Pokemon and Beyblade. I would love to see Encore, Syfy, Starz and heck.....Disney Channel air anime again if it happens. I even had a dream if Sunrise was part of Disney....weird dream, but it's a dream I had yesterday.
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Kadmos1
Posts: 13597 Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP |
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Even on official streaming sites, AS doesn't really care about anime as much anymore. To watch an anime episode, you have to use your cable provider account. A monthly subscription to them should be enough.
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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I see what you mean. I believe you, considering the behavior I would see of both kids and parents at my previous jobs. You speak like you've worked at Disneyland, which I definitely do not envy. What do you mean by the people in costumes teaching their kids morals? Do the parents expect their kids to go on wacky adventures with them and learn things?
Based on what you've described growing up, your experiences are different than most other people's, or at least different from mine. I would say I went to some rough schools, but Pokémon was definitely still quite big at school well into Generation II, and I was in high school by then. It comes across to me that you were in a subculture or clique of teenagers who really wanted to look mature by being into things people older than them enjoyed. You create these sweeping generalizations that use phrases like "anyone," "everyone," and "no one," which kind of irk me because they do not describe my years growing up at all, let alone what people tell me growing up in parochial schools and schools in more peaceful towns. Of course, it's not like the groups I was in weren't desperately trying to look mature either...they just did it in a certain way. By the 11th grade, some of them were reading the Wall Street Journal, for instance. And while I was pretty much on my own over Generation III, I was in college by Generation IV and I found a few people into Pokémon. I was invited to come talk about the games' in-depth mechanics on a late-night show at the university-owned radio station, though I lived off-campus and it would've been unfeasible for me to be there at 3 AM. That being said, I DID attend Pokémon TCG tournaments through Generation III, and I will say that the 15-and-up division was bigger than the 10-and-below and 11-to-14 divisions put together. Still is. |
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enurtsol
Posts: 14876 |
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Also, ironically, it's the Disney channels that have more focus on action shows nowadays than CN. Especially now that Disney owns Marvel and Star Wars. (So that has an effect of pushing the envelope for the other shows' benefit, i.e. if Marvel or Star Wars animated series can get away with something, then the other animated shows would likely be allowed to get away with it too.)
Sometimes, older fans just can't let go and leave kids' shows for kids.
Live viewing. Even people, who cut cable, go to the internet to purchase only the channels they want a la carte. They still pay for TV, just thru the internet.
That's for any CN show, not just anime. (And that's usually for newer eps - the older eps are usually available without requiring login, paid-for with just ads instead.) And that's pretty much for any network, not just CN. |
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mbanu
Posts: 160 |
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I kind of wonder if it's a cultural difference at work. In the history of export anime, Japan is always trying to join whatever established media franchise is there. In the States, though, established companies have no interest in joining forces, because they are already the most powerful.
Like in the 70s Japan smashed itself bloody banging on Hollywood's door, and honestly it's never gone anywhere. The closest to a genuine partnership with Hollywood was the Disney/Ghibli deal, years later. At the same time, though, bootleg anime was making its way across the States through greymarket UHF programming, because UHF was a new media with no established top dogs, and everybody was hungry for what they could get. I guess a more precise question to ask is not why anime struggles to get on cable TV today, but rather why anime wasn't able to make the leap from grey-market UHF to legitimate agreements with the superstations that would eventually become cable TV, sort of like the agreements that created Crunchyroll. |
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belvadeer
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Oh no, I've never worked there. As I said, I've watched some videos of the disgusting behavior of guests, and read blogs and articles by former employees. They've seen some...things. Some entitled parents seem to think the park exists so they can do whatever they want and if they don't get to act like the spoiled dumbasses they want to be, they insult the employees with the tired out jab of "high school/college dropout". I'd rather not keep dragging this out, so I'll end it here. |
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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Well, Disney DOES have a lot of money and owns two action franchises. They can afford to do so, and they're also safe bets. I mean, Pokémon was the last remaining anime on Cartoon Network for a reason: It's also a safe bet. But yeah, it is pretty interesting to see the action shows have migrated mostly to Disney XD. Still, they don't get much luck outside of Marvel and Star Wars. It definitely comes across to me that the interest in action shows have diminished, though I don't know if that's true or not, and there's no way to really find out.
At that time, the Animation Age Ghetto was very strong, way stronger than it currently is. I mean, in the UK, anime was marketed as this bloody gory stuff with tons and tons of swearing to make it obvious it wasn't kids stuff, but that was mostly due to UK companies doing it. There were no such companies in the US, and the UK companies didn't have that much money to try to sell overseas. That being said, we DID get anime series aimed at kids here. They just weren't recognized as anime for a long time by most people because they didn't know Japan produced their own content. Heck, even in the late 00's when I was in college, a lot of my fellow classmates in the film and TV department didn't know anime is in continuous production. Last edited by leafy sea dragon on Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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SillyPerson
Posts: 39 Location: Vatican City |
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This makes no sense. American TV is full of stupid garbage I and many other people have absolutely no interest in like reality TV shows. Over 90% of the stuff on American television is complete trash, not even remotely interesting. Anime actually IS interesting, quality content, and even bad anime is better than the vast majority of trash shown on American TV networks, especially if you get into the hundreds of channels on digital cable.
I think the real problem is licensing fees to show anime on TV are probably too high, it must be some financial reason, because the content is awesome and most people who see it love it. And if it is dubbed into English instead of using subtitles, that gets rid of any confusion and they can just show it on American TV on some cable channel and tons of people will watch it and the channel won't have to put any effort at all into developing their own content, they can just import it from another country. Anime is popular and shown on TV in many other countries, for instance all across much of Latin America and in several nations in Europe. It is even catching on in China now despite China's decades of hostility to Japan! So yeah it really makes no sense that anime isn't being featured more on American TV, we have hundreds of channels, most of the stuff on TV is garbage, it would be an improvement over most of the content, and people would watch it. It must just be that American TV executives and the Japanese companies that make anime can't really come to any business arrangement that satisfies both sides... the TV executives here would rather save money by doing really low-budget stuff like reality TV shows, and the Japanese companies want to maximize their profit and charge a high price for the content they produce. |
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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Are you being sarcastic? This really confuses me. Did you read the article? |
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meowneko
Posts: 15 |
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Never had that problem myself. As a european we get, i'm not saying tons, but quite considerable amounts of anime on air. Problem: it's almost always in kids channels. Another problem: It's binarily Shounen or Shoujo. Yet another problem: When it isn't that, it's very deep and very old anime specifically aimed at adults on a contemporary adult channel, with a GJ done of keeping the Japanese language with local subs, but it's always past midnight. GG double standards.
You can say that my weird (as a boy) likeness for Shoujo and in special Mahou Shoujo came from my childhood in the early-mid 2000's, watching the likes of Tokyo Mew Mew, Cardcaptor Sakura and Fancy Lala, which back then were more common than shounens which were almost always comprised of Dragon Ball (which in itself was a boom in the 90's, to the point where every kid in the nation was either Team Dragonball or Team Sailormoon. No-one knew those were anime back then though). The odd sports anime (Oliver & Benji, lol), the ubiquitous Pokémon/Digimon/Beyblade/YuGiOh/, some other anime such as Medabots and Kochikame, and the really childish anime such as Doreamon and the likes filled the remaining Anime playlist for the early 2000's children channel here. Then we started getting more than one kids channel and everything went beserk. Nowadays that channel is dedicated to toddlers, there's a new channel replaying old stuff, another channel focusing on the latest anime sensations (mostly shounens of the VERY mainstream variety, i'm talking One Piece, Naruto, Bleach, Fairy Tail, etc) while playing some other stuff aimed at that demographic, and there's Nicktoons and Disney Channel ofc. but those are unrelated. It's weird to see people from what i thought was a culturally advanced country say "we don't get a lot of anime on TV, we never got". while codfish-country here and all his neighbours had such an intricate relationship with anime deep down and unknowingly. Everyone knew the "better cartoons" which we followed passionately because of interesting story, which turned out to be Anime. I delved a bit more into this in the "Anime to show to kids" answerman. As soon as internet got first-worldish here (unlimited plans and good speeds) i was immediately off the cable channels but from what i can read, after i was gone they were still going with Toradora, To-LOVE Ru and, lol, Oliver & Benji is still going xD But that's nearly the only anime in there now, unless we count LoliRock which while heavily inspired on aforementioned Mahou Shoujo, and having the anime art-style into it, it's made in france lol. |
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