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Wondername
Joined: 29 May 2015
Posts: 17
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Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 4:16 pm
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dragonrider_cody wrote: |
I'm part Italian, so I save my food snobbery for when I see people using prepackaged sauce for lasagna, or those soulless monsters that put ketchup on meat loaf. |
Also, overcooked pasta with sliced chicken on top of it. Not to mention the meat-and-random-ingredients-pie which part of the world likes calling simply "pizza". Yup, I know it's fusion, but when you were raised on a nation's authentic cuisine monstrosities like these make you want to really really cry. That being said to each their own, as long as it makes you happy.
That being said...
Quote: | Also, no self-respecting Japanese person mixes wasabi into their soy sauce dish. |
When I first started to eat sushi I watched/read more than a few guides on how to do it in the first place. The mixing of soy sauce and wasabi was somehow always mentioned as part of the etiquette, although it seemed fishy at the time I still followed it because hell, what does a filthy gaijin like me know.
I should have freaking known it was bull.
So, this leads me to two questions.
1) How did this myth gain so much support in the first place?
2) Does anyone know of a good and serious book about Japaniese table manners? Not only for sushi, but also for eating things like ramen, fish and meats with chopsticks, etc. I wouldn't mind reading more on it as once I visit Japan I don't want people to bleed their eyes out while watching me eat.
Thank you for any suggestions.
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mgosdin
Joined: 17 Jul 2011
Posts: 1302
Location: Kissimmee, Florida, USA
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Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 4:46 pm
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dragonrider_cody wrote: | I'm part Italian, so I save my food snobbery for when I see people using prepackaged sauce for lasagna, or those soulless monsters that put ketchup on meat loaf. |
Ah, Cody, soulless was the meatloaf they served in my grade school in the early 60's. Ketchup, and lots of it, was your only hope of salvation.
We bought a "Sushi for Dummies" book when we first tried making it at home, it proved to be very good to have in prepping the rice. Since we've lived in Central Florida we have gotten a fairly well equipped kitchen with the proper tools, bowls, mats and presses all from the local Asian markets. It's fun when the owners ask how your family is doing and then show the latest fish they've gotten in.
Mark Gosdin
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Beltane70
Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 3952
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Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 4:58 pm
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Maybe I've been lucky where I live, but the sushi that I've had here in the US isn't far too different from what I've had during my many Japan trips.
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Polycell
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
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Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 5:14 pm
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Kougeru wrote: | TLDR; restaurants themselves might be being duped, but most of the fish is really cheap stuff instead of what they claim they're selling you. |
This reminds me of when brands advertising "100% parmesan cheese" got caught cutting the product with wood pulp(and a lot of it). Sometimes the only thing you can trust food companies for is that their product (probably) won't kill you.
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Weazul-chan
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 625
Location: Michigan
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Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 5:33 pm
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I'm pretty lucky, I live in Michigan but we recently got a real good Japanese restaurant in town that does some damn good sushi. My sister-in-law's brother spent a few years in Japan and has tried the food in that place, he said the sushi is on par with the stuff he had in Japan even.
granted, it does have some very American sushi options, but it's also got a great selection of nigiri, I really like their sweet shrimp and sea urchin nigiri there myself. I was hesitant to try the second one at first because I heard how bad sea urchin can be if it's not good, but it was WONDERFUL.
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ninjamitsuki
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 620
Location: Anywhere (Thanks, technology)
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Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 5:57 pm
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I'm so grateful to live near a sushi restaurant run by a Japanese immigrant and his very chatty wife. Really delicious sushi.
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zrdb
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Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 6:19 pm
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Sushi to me has always been ricerolls filled with fish (cooked-not raw) and an outer layer of seaweed. I was in japan many years ago when I was in the service and I always ate at local joints and had many a good cheap meal.
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harminia
Joined: 24 Aug 2015
Posts: 2037
Location: australia
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Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 6:52 pm
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Quote: | It's also pretty rare in the US to see Inari (sushi rice stuffed into a fried tofu pouch -- commonly in bento) |
Australia has a bit of Inari around. How authentic it is is another question, but I see Inari in many sushi places (in Melbourne at least)
I can't be a sushi snob because I hate fish and I eat the avocado filled sushi instead.
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AholePony
Joined: 04 Jun 2015
Posts: 330
Location: Arizona
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Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 7:03 pm
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Beltane70 wrote: | Maybe I've been lucky where I live, but the sushi that I've had here in the US isn't far too different from what I've had during my many Japan trips. |
Same here. People shouldn't take the answerman's reply to mean they're eating "fake" sushi. I mean, it's a very simple dish, you can't screw it up that much. There were of course small differences in the Japanese versions, and far fewer crazy combinations like we have invented in the west... and it tasted a hell of a lot better because the fish is way more fresh than I normally get, but it's not like I thought to myself "I've been eating fake sushi my whole life!" when I first had sushi in its land of origin.
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leafy sea dragon
Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
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Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 7:15 pm
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AholePony wrote: | Same here. People shouldn't take the answerman's reply to mean they're eating "fake" sushi. I mean, it's a very simple dish, you can't screw it up that much. There were of course small differences in the Japanese versions, and far fewer crazy combinations like we have invented in the west... and it tasted a hell of a lot better because the fish is way more fresh than I normally get, but it's not like I thought to myself "I've been eating fake sushi my whole life!" when I first had sushi in its land of origin. |
Sushi also comes across to me as a malleable food, much like pizza: Starting with the rice as a base, it can then be adapted towards whatever is popular in the area. A purist wouldn't call a California roll "sushi," for one, but I do (and so does Wikipedia), and there's no doubt as to its sheer popularity. And avocado was used in the first place as a substitute for fatty tuna, as its texture is similar and fatty tuna was not easily available year-round at the time the California roll was invented.
Frankly, I find it strange to have such a rigid definition of "sushi" such that it excludes locally available ingredients or fusion variants. Perhaps there is a dividing line where it's no longer traditional or authentic, but personally, that doesn't mean it can't have its basic title or that it can't be delicious. Sushi is a type of food with sushi rice as its common ingredient, not something specific that has to be prepared in a particular way like Oysters Rockefeller or baklava.
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DerekL1963
Subscriber
Joined: 14 Jan 2015
Posts: 1119
Location: Puget Sound
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Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 7:45 pm
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leafy sea dragon wrote: | Frankly, I find it strange to have such a rigid definition of "sushi" such that it excludes locally available ingredients or fusion variants. Perhaps there is a dividing line where it's no longer traditional or authentic, but personally, that doesn't mean it can't have its basic title or that it can't be delicious. Sushi is a type of food with sushi rice as its common ingredient, not something specific that has to be prepared in a particular way like Oysters Rockefeller or baklava. |
Rigid definitions are the way of the snob - it's part and parcel of how they set themselves above and apart from the unwashed masses.
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Paiprince
Joined: 21 Dec 2013
Posts: 593
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Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 8:20 pm
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DerekL1963 wrote: |
leafy sea dragon wrote: | Frankly, I find it strange to have such a rigid definition of "sushi" such that it excludes locally available ingredients or fusion variants. Perhaps there is a dividing line where it's no longer traditional or authentic, but personally, that doesn't mean it can't have its basic title or that it can't be delicious. Sushi is a type of food with sushi rice as its common ingredient, not something specific that has to be prepared in a particular way like Oysters Rockefeller or baklava. |
Rigid definitions are the way of the snob - it's part and parcel of how they set themselves above and apart from the unwashed masses. |
Not just that. Sorry to say, but whatever passes as "sushi" in the West shouldn't even bear the same name. It diverged so much from its origin that it should be classified as something else, much like biological families branching out into different species. It's not just about tasting good, but also the ingredients and the process to make it so. If we don't uphold to tradition, we'll eventually lose our way and end up with chimera concoctions that have no rhyme or reason other than being "diverse."
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Kyjin
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 126
Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 8:29 pm
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I've given up trying to find "authentic" sushi in the States. I enjoy going out occasionally with my friends to get Americanized rolls, but at this point I just consider that a different thing than the sushi I eat in Japan. They're both good in their different ways. Closest I can get to authentic is this little mom and pop place run by an old Japanese couple in Oceanside, CA. They only do lunch and it's open till they run out of food, but the fish is excellent.
While I'm in Japan, I basically only eat sushi at this hole-in-the-wall conveyor belt place in Ikebukuro. I've been going there for five years now and it's always superb. Simple nigiri at 130 yen a plate! You really can't beat that.
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Zerreth
Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 209
Location: E6
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Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 8:45 pm
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Quote: | Unless you live in a fairly populated city on the West Coast of North America, or you're in another major city and forking out megabucks every time you have sushi, chances are fairly good that what you're eating isn't so authentic |
This opening doesn't quite make sense to me. Has Justin actually been to any cities on the east coast? Is he claiming the West Coast (honestly to be read LA, SF or Seattle) are the only places you don't spend massive amounts of money to eat "authentic" sushi? and that he's never seen chirashi outside of the west coast?
Honest question, did you even eat at any sushi restaurants outside of your comfort zone?
What about the wide range of quality in sushi in Japan? It's always an ongoing joke that conveyor belt sushi, while cheap, low-quality sushi, is still begrudgingly sushi.
I've eaten from buffets in the US where they slather rolls in multiple sauces to entice you to drink more beverages, all the way to great places in Ginza (including Sukiyabashi Jiro) and I too can say that while the west's love for maki and its variations leaves something to be desired, there are easily just as many restaurants that do know what they're doing with their rice even if it isn't "the best."
This answerman kinda rubs me the wrong way. A lot of this doesn't sound like snobbery more than it does ignorance. What exactly do you mean by authentic? Because Jiro's sushi isn't cheap by the way, and there's no way you can claim you can find that kind of quality cheaply on the west coast, let alone anywhere in Japan.
Along those lines, I still enjoy unagi-avocado maki. I know the traditional way is unagi-cucumber, but I very much enjoy the former better and that could've never happened without globalization.
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Brutannica
Joined: 18 Mar 2007
Posts: 257
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Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 9:04 pm
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John Thacker wrote: |
Quote: | I've only ever seen Edo-style chirashi in North America, and even then, only in Japanese-owned sushi places on the West Coast. It's also pretty rare in the US to see Inari (sushi rice stuffed into a fried tofu pouch -- commonly in bento). I've never seen Ohshi zushi (cooked or cured fish pressed into a flat square block of rice), or nare zushi, which uses fermented, salted fish. |
I've seen plenty of places with chirashi zushi of various types, though yeah, mostly Edo-style. |
I often see chirashi on the menu as well (I live in DC), although it doesn't seem to get ordered very much.
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