Forum - View topicIncest in Anime/Hentai: A Theory
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 24171 |
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Not sure what exactly it was, but the tongue-in-cheek kibbitzing in the Talkback forum thread, Do You Like Your Mom? Light Novel Sells 12,000 Copies in 9 Days, about whether the title might foster a slew of mother-son hot love action properties lead me to have an epiphany.
Any half-way serious watcher/reader of anime/manga/hentai is probably aware of how widespread the incest theme is, particularly between brothers and sisters. Keeping in mind this material is aimed at an otaku audience - a demographic that no doubts holds more than its fair share of nerdy, shy, socially awkward males - I have come up with the following theory. Given that Japanese people in general sometimes find social interaction fraught with potential embarrassment and given that a fair amount of otaku probably feel this even more keenly than the general Japanese population, is it possible that heterosexual incest is such a prominent theme in anime/manga because it deals with a male protagonist who has a girlfriend like relationship with a female who ALREADY knows him (already knows hima nd likely already has a very positive opinion of him). Therefore, the stand-in figure doesn't have to go through the horrendous embarrassment of having to approach and deal with an unfamiliar female. Let me stress that I am not suggesting that otaku want to bang their own RL sisters or mothers, but perhaps they find watching a situation like this play out in a fictional setting to be more comforting in some way because the stand-in male figure does not have to negotiate the perils of actual courtship (and its attendant potential embarrassments). So, by the lights of this theory, otaku viewers aren't so much drawn to incest themes because it's a kink or fetish that personally interests them, it may be because it's a way to absorb a romantic/sexual relationship with less anxiety than when a stand-in actually has to "win" the attention/affection of an unfamiliar female figure. I wonder... |
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Chiibi
 Posts: 4829 |
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Possibly......though a guy I know who dated a Japanese girl and was regularly around her family said such incestuous thoughts come from family members bathing together and seeing each other naked so much.
I don't know if that's really true and I take what he says with a grain of salt but.............the bathing theory makes some kind of sense....especially between a brother and sister....and siscon seems like the most common category of incest in media. It would certainly be a situation where, sibling or not, they would be very aware of the opposite sex's body...and depending on the age, hormonal urges overpower reasonable thoughts. |
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Vaisaga
 Posts: 13240 |
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It's mostly a simple matter of the forbidden fruit being more enticing. If it was for what you suggest, a childhood friend is sufficient. But the incest angle injects a different sort of drama into things and the fact that it's "wrong" can be a bigger turn on.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 24171 |
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@ Vaisaga - I don't discount the forbidden fruit aspect, but I'm trying to account for why the incest theme seems so much more prevalent in anime versus other types of entertainment. No doubt the forbidden fruit aspect exists in Western culture too, but that is not reflected in the same prevalence of the incest theme in niche entertainment the way it is in Japan. The same would be true of Chiibi's "bathing together" thing. If that was a factor, you'd expect to see the incest theme be prevalent in other forms of Japanese entertainment besides just anime/manga, which, as far as I can tell, it isn't.
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Vaisaga
Posts: 13240 |
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Anime is a niche, and incest stuff is a niche within a niche. It might seem like it's more prevalent but that's because we're in a position where we have more exposure to that niche. Just how much Japanese media outside of anime do you consume? I'll admit outside of a few Kamen Rider shows I don't have much exposure so I can't say either way. I do know there's plenty of Japanese produced adult videos with incest premises. One that sticks out is this sex game show series that has things like a father having to pick his daughter's butt out of a line up and stuff.
In regards to the west, go to Pornhub or something and search for incest stuff and you'll get a ton of results. It's dubious if any of those amateur videos are actually real, but that they're labeled as such to draw views should tell you there is a demand for it. Plenty of professionally made stuff too that has that as the plot. But you wouldn't know that if you never go to any of those sites. But I suppose in general Japan's culture might be a bit more tolerant to such things. Cousins marrying is considered acceptable both socially and legally, while in the more prudish west even if it's legal it's considered morally reprehensible. Whereas Japan might portray incest as something tragic and sympathetic, Game of Thrones makes a point that incest is something evil done by evil people. Citation needed on this, but I think I remember reading that in olden days Japan the father/brother would sleep with a girl before marriage so she'd be ready for the wedding night or something. That could contribute to it. |
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jl07045
 Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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Well, if you think about whether incest, the way it is portrayed in anime/manga (or rather primarily doujins and eroge), would fly in more mainstream types of entertainment, you will get a big part of the answer. It's not like this is super rare in JAV too for example.
I certainly think it's more the built-in emotional connection than kinks. It's rarely ever that these stories just feature sex, which would indicate that this is primarily sexual fetish. Anime/manga/light novels might not have any sex or even implied romantic relationship at all, doujins rely on established relationships in source material and eroge usually have significant buildup before sex. But it's kinks as well, because as I said JAV and Hentai, where plot is purely instrumental, has that too.
There are works of Western literature that don't cater to the lowest common denominator. Last edited by jl07045 on Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Alan45
Village Elder Posts: 10032 Location: Virginia |
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@Blood- Wrote:
Sorry to spoil your theory, but that doesn't describe a real little sister, or big sister for that matter. The attitude of a sister to a brother ranges from disgust to apathy with occasional use as a resource to be exploited. Basically, otaku are drawn to the little sister trope because most of them do not have and have never met one. They see only that she is female and in close contact with the guy. I'm sure the idea of forbidden fruit plays a factor as well. Japanese society says that a younger child must obey the older. That doesn't mean they have to like it. See the first Genshiken series for a real older brother/little sister relationship. Basically all siblings are in a perpetual war for scarce family resources, money, parental love, space in the home etc. They very seldom have a positive image of each other unless there is a really significant age gap. There may be some hero worship when the younger one is under age ten but that wears off quickly. My sister is about 2 1/2 years younger then me. By the time she got into high school friends started telling me she was "hot". Could have fooled me, all I ever saw was the same nuisance I'd always known. We didn't become friends until we were both out of the home. TLDR: The little sister trope has no basis in reality. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 24171 |
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There is no question that the incest theme is prevalent in both Western and Japanese porn. When incest shows up in porn, regardless of where the porn comes from, I have to assume it is strictly due to the "forbidden fruit" aspect as opposed to my theory. But treating the incest theme as it appears in non-hentai anime, I think it's a different beast. There, I don't think the forbidden fruit is the only element in play (it's not absent, it's just that I think my theory might have some relevance, as well.) Bro-con or sis-cons ... those concepts don't seem to really exist outside of anime/manga. Handshakers is the latest example. Here is a show that is clearly not about sex at all yet suddenly we have a bro-con character and it's not even a major element of the show. That just doesn't seem to happen anywhere other than anime/manga.
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Alan45
Village Elder Posts: 10032 Location: Virginia |
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@Blood-
We seem to have posted on top of each other. I think the concept arises from the relative absence of two or more children in a Japanese family. They are making a fantasy of something they are not familiar with. |
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jl07045
Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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The cases where that's not a major element would just show that the whole siscon/brocon thing is also a fad. The whole subculture is nauseatingly self-referential, and because incestual relationships are shown as non-problematic or dealt in tongue-in-cheek manner, writers, desperately trying to make their 5 character types more colorful just include that as a quirk.
That would serve as an explanation for little sisters. Most everyone is familiar with having a mother. |
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Alan45
Village Elder Posts: 10032 Location: Virginia |
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@jl07045
So far, I haven't seen any series about a romantic relationship with a mother. I doubt that idea will go very far. |
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jl07045
Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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There's a lot of it in eroge and doujinshi. Including those that have a story.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 24171 |
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*blows cigarette smoke* Was it good for you? 
I've seen the "most Japanese people don't have siblings" theory before, but again, it doesn't explain why the incest theme isn't more prevalent in non-anime/manga forms of Japanese entertainment. And your point that siscon or brocon feelings aren't based on reality simply supports my theory that the prevalence of such occurances in anime/manga is not merely a fetish or forbidden fruit thing. (Since most people, Japanese or not, otaku or not, don't really want to bang family members.) |
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Chiibi
Posts: 4829 |
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I would actually chalk that more up to "These are drawings so there are no limitations on what we can and cannot do with them".
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Alan45
Village Elder Posts: 10032 Location: Virginia |
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@Blood-
No! 
My point is that the whole brother/little Sister thing is pure fantasy based on a lack of knowledge of the reality of sibling relations. That is why it doesn't bother me in anime or manga. It is so far from reality that it lacks the ability to disgust. Much like Nyaruko it makes a good story but in reality you would lose too many sanity points. I suspect it shows up in otaku circles due to their fondness for 2D relationships. Those are uncomplicated and require new scenarios constantly to maintain freshness. Non otaku writers most likely have relationships with 3D significant others and realize that such relationships have all the complexity necessary. |
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