Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Scum's Wish
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Angel M Cazares
 Posts: 5493 Location: Iscandar |
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I will be the sexist police and ask: are you saying that sex between women does not count as sex because there is no male genitalia involved? |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15555 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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I had always heard that it is indifference, the feeling Hanabi had for that one guy that she turned down earlier. I know that you know more coming forward, but at this point they were both being selfish, it was not just a situation of Ebato playing the don't lose a friend card to get Hanabi to sleep with her. Hanabi's guilt later was showing that she allowed her normal friendship to be at risk just because she wanted to experience it with someone who loved her. And if I had to guess on what to come, the thing is that Ebato has only Hanabi to focus on, and after this taste where she both thinks she was the only one to be a scum and that Hanabi enjoying some of it means that Hanabi is meant to be with her. Ebato will do something stupid like maybe try and destroy Hanabi's other relationships, because she already thinks she crossed the line and that she would have been happy with her. Hanabi should not have let it happen, she should already have known how strong love was, and that indulging it with Ebato would only cause stronger feelings that would cause pain. And I think we might as well say that Hanabi lost her lesbian virginity, whatever the line is there. |
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PonSquared
 Posts: 246 Location: Lost in the Catskills |
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The best part of Ep. 4 was near the end when Hanabi says something to the effect of, "I must change. I need to be stronger," before confronting Minagawa for a second time. Only to all too quickly, almost comically, find out that Minagawa is leagues - light years - ahead of her as she is crushed back into the insignificant bug that she is.
That was just amazing television. I love this series. |
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Lord Oink
Posts: 876 |
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Nah, it's not. Usually people who criticize the concept of virginity are either frustrated virgins themselves or people deflecting responsibility for poor descisions they've made in life prior since they can't take it back. |
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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Or people who don't think that there's one thing anyone can do to "break the seal" on whether someone is considered "sexually pure" or whatever, which is my personal issue. It's not that a lack of sexual experience doesn't matter when it comes to some aspects of life, that's not what I (and most people who roll their eyes at the concept of virginity) mean by that. It's just that there's no easy litmus test for whether someone's "a virgin" or not, and having passed that point or not doesn't say anything about their sexual viability or whatever. Some people are really creepy about the concept of virginity is basically what I'm saying. Nothing more complicated than that. |
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Valhern
 Posts: 916 |
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I too think the most commonly accepted concept of virginity is pretty uninteresting personally. Because it's mostly this heteronormative obsession about when two organs make contact, apparently being the only important thing about someone's sexuality. And it's even more obsessive because it has to happen regularly.
The awaken of sexuality, rather than the lost of virginity and chastity, now that's an interesting concept, that entails much more complex intrapersonal and interpersonal conflicts. Otherwise, it's just a checklist for society acceptance that ignores all particularities and whatever is even interesting about human sexuality. And that's what I also like about this anime in how it doesn't tackle sexuality as such a simple thing of who you choose to fudge. |
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Parsifal24
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I watched all four episodes of this in one go and honestly to put it succinctly this is the Shigurui: Death Frenzy of romance Anime. The difference for me being I liked Shigurui I don't like this.
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Chiibi
 Posts: 4829 |
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Lol, no, it's legitimate info from the manga. They didn't really have intercourse....so Hanabi is still a virgin. It's mentioned a couple times, in fact, even by Hanabi herself. Unless you don't define virginity by having an unbroken hymen....but that's the common definition....for girls at least. I think the review is a bit misleading because it keeps mentioning "sex sex sex" but this series is pretty vague about what really happened between the two girls. I think it's more likely that Ebato just touched Hanabi's erogenous zones until she was satisfied....or something like that. So we can draw to the conclusion that they did intimate things....but didn't actually have sex.
No, that's not strong enough to be the opposite feeling. If love means putting someone's needs before your own, wouldn't the opposite mean putting your needs first? That makes the most sense. |
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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I don't define it by that metric, and the very idea of defining it by that metric is the reason I brought up the subject of virginity being a dumb concept most of the time. What about if you have anal sex? What about if you get eaten out? What if you do either of those things for months or years without any vaginal penetration? Are you still a virgin somehow? It's dumb. Also fun fact: the hymen doesn't automatically tear following intercourse. That only happens if the woman isn't warmed up enough (which is most of the time both because guys don't know what they're doing and because most women have trouble relaxing enough to open up during their first time.) But the hymen tearing/intercourse being painful are myths perpetuated by a woefully uninformed society that doesn't know enough about how to pleasure a woman and devote enough time to decent foreplay. Theoretically, if a woman only ever had penetrative sex after getting nice and sloppy down there, her hymen might not ever tear.
She fingered her until she climaxed. That's sex. Between two women.
I mean, this shit isn't math. There is no "most logical" answer to what is the opposite of an abstract emotional concept like love. It could be any number of things, if you can even say that any opposites exist for such a subjective concept. |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 24092 |
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Ugh, I have to step into this what is the opposite of love business because words have meaning, words matter and I don't like to see them used improperly. It's fine to have your own personal definitions, so in Chiibi's world, if the opposite of love is selfishness, then rock on, but out here where actual dictionary definitons exist, the opposite of love is, of course, hate. This is not rocket science, folks.
Love <-> Hate Hope <-> Despair Happy <-> Sad Positive <-> Negative. Love <Indifference> Hate Positive <Neutral> Negative Indifference is not the "opposite" of love, it is in the middle of the spectrum between the two poles of love and hate. Dictionaries, people - love them, use them. |
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Chiibi
Posts: 4829 |
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It's not hate either.
They say there's a thin line BETWEEN love and hate.....so I wouldn't call the opposite of love "hate", really. Unless it's about food or something....if you hate a food, you hate it. There's no chance for you to suddenly start liking it......which is much different than relationships you have with people.....especially if you're a fictional character.
Technically? Yes, I think so................but if everyone defines "virgin" and "sex" differently, there's no actual way to settle this debate. lol
We don't know if she even did that. The narration is so vague in both the manga and anime scenes. If the author herself states that Hanabi is still a virgin though, then she is....since the author is the only one who knows exactly what went on with her characters. I'm not going to go against an author's statement when it comes to something like this. It's her story. |
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CrowLia
 Posts: 5528 Location: Mexico |
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This is precisely why the concept of virginity is dumb and meaningless. If by "technically" you mean the person is still a virgin because the hymen didn't break, then why is it important whether they're a virgin or not? The whole point of "virginity" is to denote a person's sexual experience or lackthereof. What if, like Jacob also exemplified, there is vaginal penetration but the hymen doesn't break. Is the person still a virgin? If the breaking of the hymen is not a requirement for "losing virginity", then why is oral or anal sex not counted as "technically" losing one's virginity. If you're saying only penetrative vaginal sex counts as "losing virginity" that's, well, problematic in ways I hope I don't need to explain. If the author is saying Hanabi is still a virgin she's probably using the term 処女 which mostly aligns with the aforementioned problematic and outdated notion, but the fact is that Hanabi is having sexual experiences and they're significant to her life, growth and her relationships. Whether she's "officially" a virgin or not is completely inconsequential
You just answered your own question. You're trying to impose an antonym for only one definition of "love" -and even of that, the definition you're giving isn't one everyone would agree on-. If love/hate are opposites when it comes to food, objects, places, activities, hobbies, anime, then why wouldn't they be with people? "Thin line between love and hate" is just something people say, has as much worth to the discussion as "If you have nothing nice to say, don't say it". Last edited by CrowLia on Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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DuskyPredator
Posts: 15555 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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And it is not uncommon that people who fight also care about each other, like it is healthy that to an extent fight. Hate is a strong emotion, strong emotions are a passion, and passion is love, I think that this is what is often meant with the thin layer thing. If we are looking for opposites, what we are really doing is trying to define what love is in the first place. If you saying hate is the opposite, you equate love with positive feelings, and thus hate is opposite due to negative feelings. If you say selfishness is the opposite of love, then you are equating love with being unselfish, and while that works to a degree, I think this kind of runs into a generalisation of saying that a person cannot have feelings they could only describe as love, but not have any feelings of entitlement. Someone in love cannot feel wronged wen the person they love is being really touchy with someone else, with a broad heading you could call that person with that description as a stalker, but it is just as much for a normal spouse. For many people they can argue that their idea of love leaves the selfish one sided nature of a stalker as not being so, maybe being the opposite, but I think that is giving too much credit in a sort of fairy tale idea. What I, and I think a saying goes, is that indifference is the opposite is not that you are in the middle of hate, it is that they barely enter your mind. Lets look at the recent episode as an example. It was noted by narcissist teacher that Hanabi actually has some admirers, there are boys in her class that look at her, but following Hanabi's story this has not entered the picture at all, she has not noticed this, she has no strong feelings at all to those boys at all, and Hanabi turned one of those boys down earlier and commented that there was nothing more disgusting than a boy she cared nothing at all confessing to her, in the sort of way one might find "love" as the opposite of that. I can see other ways you could maybe call selfishness as the opposite of love, and that is if you consider it in the relationship sense, where true love is both parties caring about the wellbeing of the other more than their own, creating some sort pedestal pairing. But a relationship is still a relationship if one party is demanding of the other, even if it is unfair to one party there can still be love, it is just not really healthy. What breaks it down it down is if a relationship has both parties kind of indifferent to the needs of the other, like they don't care that they hurt the other person or want to meet someone part way. Lastly I will just say it is all subjective. Some people think there is romance between two characters because they talked to each other once. Oh, also different kinds of love, funny anime example that came to mind is Aqua from Konosuba, her and Kazuma fight as much or even more than friendly, but there is love there, only totally not in the romantic type. |
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vonPeterhof
Posts: 729 |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 24092 |
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Picking up on Jacob's point about "creepy" aspects to the value that our culture puts on virginity, the absolute creepiest manifestation of this that I can think of is those so-called "Purity Balls" where fathers take their daughters and the daughters pledge a vow of "purity" until marriage. The equation of purity and virginity is all kinds of messed up itself and reflects the culture's effed up view of sex.
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