Forum - View topicREVIEW: Maria the Virgin Witch BD+DVD
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Lemonchest
Posts: 1771 |
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I only meant it to be a visual, rather than thematic comparison. In case it's been lost in the noise, I like MtvW & think that, for all the flaws I find in it's finale, it's still leagues ahead of what we usually get on these subjects in anime. Even so, given what comes before, I cannot just go with whatever the intent behind the scene was when I find the ultimate execution of it to be a thematic contradiction, albeit dramatically satisfying. Is it a deal breaker? Not at all. But again, it's one of a number of issues I had with the final two episodes that collectively left me cold.
Since I can't legally watch it, if I'm so wrong as to need correcting, please do. My memory of the final episode is that Maria is pretty much brow beaten by the rest of the cast into going along with what Michael et al have planned for her, herself seeming more sarcastic & resigned than enthusiastic about it. The Ezekiel part in particular I recall going something like: Michael: Ezekiel, you're going to be born a human. Who would you like to birth you? Ezekiel: You'll be my mummy, right Maria? Joseph: Right, Maria? Maria: Well fudge, I can't exactly say no now, can I? Hop into my womb, buddy.
If Maria had never really been a witch with actual magic to begin with, then the idea that her being one in spirit, at least, at the end of the story would hold water for me. But she had power, she was persecuted & punished for using said power & she ends either having lost it, or still with the curse that will rob her of it the moment she actually does the dew. She ends having lost something she started with & I do not buy the justification for it happening, or consider what she gets in return to be adequate compensation. At the end of the day, MtvW ends with religious orthodoxy being restored, the social hierarchy intact & Maria having been stripped of her magic. You can argue that the important thing is she stayed true to herself, or in losing her magic she found what she really wanted (love?). But you've yet to convince me to find that satisfactory, or at least that there was good story or character related reasons why it was necessary.
That's not what I'm implying at all. Again, I liked MtvW. My problem with the ending is that its execution, for me, intentionally or not, undermines its message & put a dampener on the whole experience. If it doesn't bother you, you liked it, or you think the intent of the series as a whole is what matters most, then great. We don't really disagree about what MtvW was trying to be; only on whether the last episode was a satisfying conclusion or not. |
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jroa
Posts: 548 |
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Frankly, I had already made a lot of posts about Maria last year and while I doubt I'd convince you, given enough time I'd definitely provide plenty of reasons in support of my interpretation. Unfortunately, time is only one of the currencies that I am lacking right now, thus I will have to end this conversation way more abruptly than I'd like. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18445 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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It would have to be after the Hussite Wars at the very least, as they are what introduced the hand cannons to warfare and Joan of Arc's trip to the stake, which is referenced in episode 1, happened in their midst. The other evidence that the series gives us about the date are references to the Black Death having struck before Anne was born ("long before" in the English dub, which may be misleading) and the facts that mercenaries were still marauding local villages and levies from nobles were still being used in battles. Barring historical inconsistencies, the latter two actually put a cap of 1445 on the story, as that's the point when France transitioned to a standing army (in part to deal with the marauding mercenaries). The waves of Black Plague in that part of Europe hit in 1400 and 1438-1439, so if we assume that Anne is around age 6 then a date of 1444 or 1445 is reasonable. I think she looks at least a couple of years older than that, so late 1440s with the timing being stretched a bit is also reasonable. Of course, given Martha's age it's theoretically possible that she is referring to the 1400 episode of the Black Death, but that would mean that Maria is a lot older than what she looks like she is. (Of course, we also have no way to know what, exactly, Martha meant by when she was a "younger woman.") The rest of your post I'll leave to others to address. |
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Lemonchest
Posts: 1771 |
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You could have just said it's set between 1431 (the death of Joan d'Arc) & 1453 (the battle of Castillon). The specific date doesn't matter, since I only mentioned the Hussites in relation to presenting Bernard & more specifically his texts being burned by Michael & Gilbert as a "good" ending at a time when The Church was prone to doing just that to assert its superiority over those who dissented or deviated (including Maria & her fellow witches).
Anyways, this discussion has more than run its course. |
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TarsTarkas
 Posts: 5935 Location: Virginia, United States |
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Another semi-historical anime where people expect a twenty first century PC message for an anime taking place in the fifteenth century.
I for one want the past to be depicted as it was, and not framed by the present. |
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4157 |
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She's a witch in what seems to be spandex, I'd think it'd be weird if it didn't have a modern message. My rewatch of the series wasn't as good as the initial viewing... there's angels and witches coexisting so it's hard to imagine why that world isn't a lot more pragmatic when it comes to contrasting opposing view points. In the base historical context, there's the Church on one hand and on the other there's "You're wrong, the Church is right". So you have the odd situation in the series where Heaven is ok with witches existing while the Church is still the same historic Church, the "never suffer a witch to live" one It's good that Michael doesn't play favorites but I'd still like to have seen a little more cause behind Heaven's action. Oh and the series really needed to explain the difference between witches and humans. I think it's obvious from her actions with that previous village that she's a lot longer lived than she appears but it's hard to say how long or even how. The series would have been greatly aided with these details spelled out with more than "She's a witch, you know, a witch. Brooms, flying, familiars and magic, the whole package." |
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kgw
 Posts: 1181 Location: Spain, EU |
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Actually, there was a current in the Church which stated the "witchery" was just superstition or the fact of believing in them might show people were following pre-Christian beliefs, which was wrong. That's one of the reasons why there were more "witch hunting" in Protestant than in Catholic areas, centuries later. In the end, he could say "so she's just treating illness, and there is nothing wrong with it. Besides, God is above any tiny power she might have or have not". Last edited by kgw on Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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LinkTSwordmaster
 Posts: 538 Location: PA / USA |
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Wow, lots of posts & spoiler tags already. I can't imagine throwing my hat into the ring will add more than what has already been said, but posting might add some volume to the already-existing opinions.
I thought the review more or less was on point. It's not a bad show, and I think there is definitely some critical merit to hunting it down either on BluRay or Hulu or something. The thing is, it left me feeling really conflicted & with a sour punch in my stomach by the time it was over, much so to the point that I am troubled by a lot of the choices & characterisation that the show ultimately ended with......based on the potential I saw early on. |
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jroa
Posts: 548 |
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The show had a lot of anime original material, but it was still ultimately based on a three volume manga (there's a fourth volume which came later and is literally just an extra epilogue). I don't think they could run too far away from the source's underlying framework and the way that ended, especially not without twice as many episodes. For a 12 episode series, I think it was pretty good. Admittedly, I've already made clear that my views on characterization tend to radically differ from those who have the most issues with the conclusion. |
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meruru
Posts: 475 |
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The one thing that always bugged me about this show: wtf Maria's coat has 4 sleeves? Seriously, look at it. You can clearly see it's got long sleeves hanging down, and her arms are coming out of.... somewhere else?
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wastrel
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No, her coat only has 2 sleeves, but it also has two slits in front of the sleeves where Maria usually has her arms through, so she's wearing it more like a cloak than a coat. |
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