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gravediggernalk
![](/bbs/phpBB2/images/subscriber-silver.png) Space Cowboy
Joined: 13 Oct 2013
Posts: 246
Location: Alabama
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:36 pm
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Megiddo wrote: | This isn't a Toei to Funimation thing. This is an Atlus to Atlus USA thing. Atlus owns the rights to Persona. There isn't some random company that owns the Japanese video. Please do not make misleading comparisons. |
Atlus owns the game. Atlus does NOT own the voice actors. It wouldn't be an Atlus not wanting to case, it's a case of the voice actors' agencies charging fees for overseas distribution case.
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Megiddo
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 8360
Location: IL
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:40 pm
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Of course they don't own the voice actors. They own the rights to the Japanese audio to be used in the game. Atlus paid the voice actors (and their agencies) for their efforts but the rights of using the Japanese audio are Atlus'.
Last edited by Megiddo on Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Yuvelir
Joined: 06 Jan 2015
Posts: 1618
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:42 pm
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gravediggernalk wrote: | But, as far as Atlus has said so far, none of the game has been changed. It's more likely than not a licensing issue with the Japanese voice actors, which is an issue that's been covered multiple times on this site across numerous columns and articles. "Why does Crunchyroll have so many K-dramas but not J-dramas?" Here's one of your answers. "Why is X company only releasing Y anime with the English dub?" Here's one of your answers. |
Here's another question: why is this an insurmountable hurdle for almost nobody but Atlus? Why can smaller companies overcome it happily while it's a no-go for Atlus?
Companies of course want to maximize profit, to make it efficient. But here's another thing: they're lead by humans. They're not beacons of absolute wisdom and perfect efficiency, they have separate agendas and they make mistakes. Some make continued stupid mistakes, and go bankrupt. Others are overcome by greed, and become Konami.
Of course Atlus' case doesn't come out as that extreme, but it doesn't have to be an efficient, optimal choice either, it can perfectly be based on something irrational or misled. And as things are going, that seems to be the case.
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Blackwolf0925
Joined: 03 Jun 2009
Posts: 67
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:43 pm
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This is kinda of the reason why I could not finish the new Fire Emblem games. I really tried to play it, but could not get past the voice acting. I have the original P3 for the PS2 and understood that you could not get dual audio on these games(had those on mute). Now though it seems Atlus USA is one of the few companies that still has not giving us that option. I don't mind if it paid DLC as long as I get the chance to play it in its original audio language.
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gravediggernalk
![](/bbs/phpBB2/images/subscriber-silver.png) Space Cowboy
Joined: 13 Oct 2013
Posts: 246
Location: Alabama
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:45 pm
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Megiddo wrote: | Of course they don't own the voice actors. What's with this thread and slavery. They own the rights to the Japanese audio to be used in the game. Atlus paid the voice actors (and their agencies) for their efforts but the rights of using the Japanese audio are Atlus'. |
Not always. Atlus can use the Japanese audio track in Japan as much as they want, but there is more than one case of those kind of deals being limited to certain areas. Voice actors are the same as musicians. Countless games and anime have BGM and other audio changes because of licenses only covering Japan or other territories.
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uzuki99
Joined: 14 Jun 2016
Posts: 10
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:12 pm
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Game is 7700 yen in most stores in pre-order, that equals 73 USD, the game is 60 USD in the US, lets assume gamers will buy from Amazon USA which is the retailer than can more easily ship internationally fast via by DHL, UPS, etc at a cheap rate of 3 to 7 usd, so reverse importing the game in the best scenario will cost a japanese gamer 63 to 67 USD! no one will be nuts to wait 5 months to save on 10 to 7 bucks, not even mentioning after 2 mere months they will buy the jaánese game used even cheaper if they want to save money.
3) Any money issues are invalid when Atlus and we all know full well the game will sell extremely well internationally, as some have pointed out, if other more niche titles with much more less sales can do it, so Atlus, if because its Persona or they used high profile voice actors its costs more to license, they will make up for it with the sales the game will easily get. This also invalidates any reason for having to pay for it as DLC other than pure greed in the scenery they release it as paid DLC.
Blackwolf0925 wrote: | This is kinda of the reason why I could not finish the new Fire Emblem games. I really tried to play it, but could not get past the voice acting.. |
Thanks to good Samaritans that fixed this annoying issue with Fire Emblems Fates Undub.
{Edit} I removed your trollish comments. You were just warned about this in 2 other threads. Including the other Persona thread. I suggest you stop them now. ! Psycho 101
Last edited by uzuki99 on Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Just-another-face
Joined: 08 Feb 2014
Posts: 324
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:26 pm
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{Edit}: I removed your response to uzuki99's post. Responding to trollish posts with equally trollish posts is just as bad. Just report those posts and do not respond to them. ~ Psycho 101
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CoreSignal
Joined: 04 Sep 2014
Posts: 727
Location: California, USA
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:24 pm
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Megiddo wrote: | Of course they don't own the voice actors. They own the rights to the Japanese audio to be used in the game. Atlus paid the voice actors (and their agencies) for their efforts but the rights of using the Japanese audio are Atlus'. |
gravediggernalk makes a good point. Atlus Japan owns the rights to the japanese audio, but not necessarily Atlus USA. It probably depends on whether the voice actor's contract says it's ok to use their work outside of Japan or not. As mentioned already, every voice acting agency will have their own legal/contract quirks to deal with. I;m sure some agencies (or agents) are easier to negotiate with than others.
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JDude042
Joined: 29 Dec 2011
Posts: 261
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:27 pm
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theNightster wrote: | so you're going to skip out on what may be a really good game? and it's over something minor like the lack of Japanese voice track? |
I think you need the try to understand the mindset of someone who is not only an anime fan, but a gamer as well. One who probably and strongly prefers watching anime in Japanese, wanting to buy a heavily anime-inspired game of Japanese origin, and expects a Japanese audio option. It's not like this hasn't become more common these days with other anime-inspired games like Disgaea, BlazBlue, and what not getting dual audio options. It only makes sense, but I guess either the US or Japanese companies involved are either stuck in their ways, living in the past, or just being outright stingy.
yurigasaki wrote: | i am honestly so confused as to why people are so indignant about the lack of a japanese voice track (in a game series that has never, in the games I've played, featured one) that they're willing to boycott a perfectly good game. |
Mind you back in the days of the PS2, I went ahead and played through Tales of the Abyss, despite the fact that I would have much preferred to have played it with the Japanese audio, but I definitely did enjoy it and wasn't too hard pressed about it being dub only. Nowadays though with the advent of Bluray and less technical limitations, not to mention it becoming more common for dual audio games, I think it should be the standard practice for localization of Japanese RPGs to include the original audio in its English release, the same way the anime industry handles it. It's just disappointing when part of the fandom can't get what it wants.
yurigasaki wrote: | then here's a simple solution: learn japanese. |
While that would be a nice advantage to have, not everyone has the time or patience (or wants to) go through the extraneous trouble of learning how to read a new language. Something like that takes an extreme amount of patience and dedication, and doesn't happen overnight. It can take years to master a new language. It would make more sense for a company who is releasing a heavily anime-inspired Japanese video game into English to want to follow standard protocol and at least try and release a game with dual-audio options if possible.
Well at least Atlus has came out and said that they're aware of the demand and are going to try. It'll be interesting to hear a follow-up on this and their excuse if the deal is a no-go.
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Juno016
Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 2406
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:36 pm
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yurigasaki wrote: | then here's a simple solution: learn japanese.
i'm being entirely serious. if japanese audio is that integral to your enjoyment of a game that a game lacking it loses all merit for you then learn japanese and play unlocalized games. you don't have to fret about if a game you dig is going to be dual audio, you have access to a massive catalog of games that have not and never will be localized and well, it's just cool to be able to pick up a game that isn't in your mother language and play it.
you're right: i can't grasp your 'simple concept' because the idea of being so hung up on the japanese audio track is just unfathomable to me. |
I learned Japanese.
I am near fluent and have lived/worked there several times in my life.
Is it worth having put in all the time and effort to learn the language in order to be able to import and play Japanese games without worrying about missing out on anything important? Of course! For someone as passionate about the culture and language as me.
But I would never force someone who doesn't feel up to it to do it. We're talking about one of the hardest languages for English speakers to learn. It's no walk in the park and often requires more than just a linguistic understanding of the language to truly not miss out on important pieces. If games and anime and so on aren't a huge part of your life, I wouldn't recommend it just so you can import and play games.
I'd say there's a good long gap between someone who won't buy a game if it isn't in Japanese and someone who will spend most of their life learning the language partially to spend more on the Japanese imports to play it in its original form. There are a ton of people who situate themselves in that long gap. And every game that includes Japanese voices in addition to English voices is accommodating and targeting those kinds of people, as well as feeding them so they can learn to appreciate it more. Things change in the industry. And while I understand how crazy licensing hoops for dubs can be, I do think it would be in Atlus' best interests to go for it.
I do think they're being serious about looking into it, though. You can bet plenty of people in the company have an interest in it and they have people biting tooth and nail to see it work out. I just don't think they have the final say on whether it happens or not.
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Raebo101
Joined: 17 Mar 2010
Posts: 812
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:33 pm
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Hey, guys? Can you give this a rest already? Please? Nothing you say here is gonna change a thing anyway.
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 16961
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:45 pm
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Raebo101 wrote: | Hey, guys? Can you give this a rest already? Please? Nothing you say here is gonna change a thing anyway. |
Yes indeed. Considering all of the trollish and rude posts I have removed or edited out are coming from the same group of you who were just warned in the other Persona thread to knock this crap off. That does not mean go into a different thread with the same ignorant and trollish posts, or equally rude responses to those posts, that you just got warned about. Several of you are getting PM's regarding this since apparently you must not have heard us clearly the first time. Now I suggest the rude and trollish posts from everyone stop now. Post civilly and if you see a rude post then simply report it. Do not respond with an equally rude post.
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GTO Neko
Joined: 11 Oct 2007
Posts: 94
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 1:10 am
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Only thing I'll say for my 2 cents on the whole thing is this, I'm going to get a PS4, I'm going to get P5 and Yakuza 0. Whether the game is in English, Japanese or any other dubs, I'm going to have fun and enjoy it.
One thing that SO many seem to have forgotten about as far as dub vs. sub is concerned is from the anime Kodocha, where in the sub, one character (a side character) was completely "erased" for their dialog, due to some form of controversy (tried looking it up but haven't found the info yet).
So for some who think that almost all original dialogs will be maintained without issue, there can be moments like that that will crop up once in a blue moon, so NEVER assume it'll always come through without issue.
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EricJ2
Joined: 01 Feb 2014
Posts: 4016
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 1:38 am
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GTO Neko wrote: | One thing that SO many seem to have forgotten about as far as dub vs. sub is concerned is from the anime Kodocha, where in the sub, one character (a side character) was completely "erased" for their dialog, due to some form of controversy (tried looking it up but haven't found the info yet).
So for some who think that almost all original dialogs will be maintained without issue, there can be moments like that that will crop up once in a blue moon, so NEVER assume it'll always come through without issue. |
IIRC, it was a guest cameo by Tokio, which also explains why the first-season OP also had to be scrapped from the US release, and references to T**** had to be removed from all subs and Japanese audio as well.
Thus bringing it back to the topic at hand: Insanely greedy/stickler Japanese music and artist rights.
You can argue fan-devotion and preservation-ethics all you like, but never stand between a Japanese corporation and its ownership money.
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Stuart Smith
Joined: 13 Jan 2013
Posts: 1298
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 1:59 am
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JDude042 wrote: |
I think you need the try to understand the mindset of someone who is not only an anime fan, but a gamer as well. One who probably and strongly prefers watching anime in Japanese, wanting to buy a heavily anime-inspired game of Japanese origin, and expects a Japanese audio option. It's not like this hasn't become more common these days with other anime-inspired games like Disgaea, BlazBlue, and what not getting dual audio options. It only makes sense, but I guess either the US or Japanese companies involved are either stuck in their ways, living in the past, or just being outright stingy. |
Video game companies tend to be behind on the times compared to anime companies in terms of being progressive. Dual audio or at least sub only is the standard for anime releases. In the anime community if a show was released dubbed only and/or censored, like all those 4Kids and Saban licenses nobody would bat an eye over people claiming they won't support it. For whatever reasons wanting games uncensored and with a Japanese voice option is seen as weird and entitled when it comes to video games though. More companies are releasing games with dual audio, but it's still far behind the way anime is treated in the US. Maybe one day it'll be standard, but until then there's not-so-legal means to enjoy games just as there existed for anime. The market will always find a way to meet demand if there is no supply.
-Stuart Smith
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