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Herald Of JOJO
Joined: 16 Oct 2015
Posts: 144
Location: Malaysia
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 12:28 am
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leafy sea dragon wrote: | The impression I got from Stands is that most of them are non-sentient, with the Stand user mentally willing all of a Stand's movements or setting it on a robotic autopilot. Stands are treated as an extension of the user, the way how some Stand users talk through their Stands like Aqua Necklace and Chili Pepper.
I'm not entirely clear on how Echoes creates its powers fairly independently of Koichi, but everything it does is still related to at least one thought of Koichi's. I would guess that it's due to Koichi not having full understanding of Echoes' Act 2 abilities. You see something similar at the beginning of Stardust Crusaders, when Jotaro is in that jail cell: Star Platinum acts pretty independently of Jotaro, but when Jotaro learns to control his Stand through Avdol's training, Star Platinum stops doing that entirely and does only what Jotaro wants it to do. (Makes me wonder what kind of destructive actions Stands like The Sun or The Hand did before their users gained control of them.) |
Well, leafy, there is an example of Stands being destructive before their users could fully control them.
Brief spoilers follow. In Vento Aureo/Part 5, one of the main characters is a Stand user. It's shown that his Stand has incredible destructive capabilities. However, it is revealed that the user has no actual control over his Stand. Based on as much as I can remember, he has no real bearing on his Stand to a point where he can't even see his own Stand. In fact, the Stand is also sentient and has its own quirks that are actually somewhat detrimental to the user (as he can't do anything about it). Fellow Jojo nerds, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
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Valhern
Joined: 19 Jan 2015
Posts: 916
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 12:58 am
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Herald Of JOJO wrote: |
leafy sea dragon wrote: | The impression I got from Stands is that most of them are non-sentient, with the Stand user mentally willing all of a Stand's movements or setting it on a robotic autopilot. Stands are treated as an extension of the user, the way how some Stand users talk through their Stands like Aqua Necklace and Chili Pepper.
I'm not entirely clear on how Echoes creates its powers fairly independently of Koichi, but everything it does is still related to at least one thought of Koichi's. I would guess that it's due to Koichi not having full understanding of Echoes' Act 2 abilities. You see something similar at the beginning of Stardust Crusaders, when Jotaro is in that jail cell: Star Platinum acts pretty independently of Jotaro, but when Jotaro learns to control his Stand through Avdol's training, Star Platinum stops doing that entirely and does only what Jotaro wants it to do. (Makes me wonder what kind of destructive actions Stands like The Sun or The Hand did before their users gained control of them.) |
Well, leafy, there is an example of Stands being destructive before their users could fully control them.
Brief spoilers follow. In Vento Aureo/Part 5, one of the main characters is a Stand user. It's shown that his Stand has incredible destructive capabilities. However, it is revealed that the user has no actual control over his Stand. Based on as much as I can remember, he has no real bearing on his Stand to a point where he can't even see his own Stand. In fact, the Stand is also sentient and has its own quirks that are actually somewhat detrimental to the user (as he can't do anything about it). Fellow Jojo nerds, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. |
Why would he not be able to see his Stand? He can see his Stand just fine. What he can't do is release it, that's likely the only control he has on it, other than that, his Stand is totally out of control. There are other Stands with a somewhat clear personaliy, other of the main characters in part 5 does, and at some point there is other that does have personality too. There is at least one Stand with personality in part 6, and there is probably one in part 7 too.
In part 4 there is one at least too, and it's a very obvious one and my personal favorite.
Also, it's not that Star Platinum did whatever it wanted. Jotaro unconsciously wanted it to do that, but he didn't know he was using a Stand, so he thought an evil spirit possessed him. He didn't want to steal stuff or beat people that hard, but his Stand took his unconscious will as orders and did it anyway. The only moment that Star Platinum could be acting on it's own when it's self-preservation is triggered.
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leafy sea dragon
Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 1:50 am
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Yeah, I actually heard about one among the good guys in Part 5 that behaves entirely of its own accord. I heard about another one in Part 5 that acts on its own once its user dies. I look forward to seeing or reading Part 5, though I'm enjoying Part 4 right now.
But it's why I said "most Stands," as I think Stands like these are more an exception than a rule, at least based on what I'm seeing. (Is the independent Stand in Part 4 Atom Heart Father, or is it something else? Also, we had Anubis in Part 3, which was not only completely independent, but it has no user.)
Thanks for the explanation regarding Star Platinum at the beginning of Part 3. Sounds like it has even more in common with Echoes's/Reverb's seemingly independent behavior than I thought: It's acting on Koichi's desires to get Yukako away from him like how Star Platinum acts on Jotaro's wishes to...steal things?
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Herald Of JOJO
Joined: 16 Oct 2015
Posts: 144
Location: Malaysia
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 7:06 am
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Valhern wrote: | Why would he not be able to see his Stand? He can see his Stand just fine. What he can't do is release it, that's likely the only control he has on it, other than that, his Stand is totally out of control. There are other Stands with a somewhat clear personaliy, other of the main characters in part 5 does, and at some point there is other that does have personality too. There is at least one Stand with personality in part 6, and there is probably one in part 7 too.
In part 4 there is one at least too, and it's a very obvious one and my personal favorite.
Also, it's not that Star Platinum did whatever it wanted. Jotaro unconsciously wanted it to do that, but he didn't know he was using a Stand, so he thought an evil spirit possessed him. He didn't want to steal stuff or beat people that hard, but his Stand took his unconscious will as orders and did it anyway. The only moment that Star Platinum could be acting on it's own when it's self-preservation is triggered. |
Ahh. Forgive me for my mistake. I must have mistaken that Stand user quirk for another Stand user's. Again, pardon me, good sir.
Also, leafy, glad to see you're enjoying Part 4. It's more of a light hearted romp in comparison to all of the other parts of Jojo in my opinion. To answer your question about the independent Stand, I'd say it's Cheap Trick, as it actively kills it users and then goes on to possess other users to kill them (based on a general consensus of its abilities). Then again, I wouldn't say it's an obvious one so Valhern might be talking about a different independent Stand that I'm forgetting. Also, have you read through Part 4? I get the impression that you've gone through about half of the manga considering you know of Atom Heart Father.[/spoiler]
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Valhern
Joined: 19 Jan 2015
Posts: 916
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 2:23 pm
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@leafy sea dragon. About that Stand, I don't know how much into Part 4 you are, but to prevent spoilers, I'll just say that it is not an independent Stand. It's actually a Stand bound to the user's soul, it doesn't have any particular form, it's just the user using it's powers. The same applies to Yukako's Love Deluxe, as you see, it's got no external form, it's bound to her hair. The personality seen is actually just the user using it's Stand. Anubis is a Stand bound to a sword, but Anubis does take form and thought, it just uses the sword to dominate a person and use its powers.
@herald. Nothing to fret over, there are too many details in JoJo so easy to forget. The Stand I'm talking about is Echoes Act 3.
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leafy sea dragon
Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 8:57 pm
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Herald Of JOJO wrote: | Ahh. Forgive me for my mistake. I must have mistaken that Stand user quirk for another Stand user's. Again, pardon me, good sir.
Also, leafy, glad to see you're enjoying Part 4. It's more of a light hearted romp in comparison to all of the other parts of Jojo in my opinion. To answer your question about the independent Stand, I'd say it's Cheap Trick, as it actively kills it users and then goes on to possess other users to kill them (based on a general consensus of its abilities). Then again, I wouldn't say it's an obvious one so Valhern might be talking about a different independent Stand that I'm forgetting. Also, have you read through Part 4? I get the impression that you've gone through about half of the manga considering you know of Atom Heart Father.[/spoiler] |
Actually, what I did was look for plot summaries ahead of time. Spoilers don't emotionally impact me much, so if I intend to consume a work of fiction and its plot is already known, I look for quick summaries I can read within 15 minutes (usually less) to see if it'd be something I think I'd like. I've done this for all eight parts of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, though because they're just quick summaries, I don't have detailed knowledge of the series, just a basic idea of each part's important characters (including what they look like) and each part's premise.
Valhern wrote: | @leafy sea dragon. About that Stand, I don't know how much into Part 4 you are, but to prevent spoilers, I'll just say that it is not an independent Stand. It's actually a Stand bound to the user's soul, it doesn't have any particular form, it's just the user using it's powers. The same applies to Yukako's Love Deluxe, as you see, it's got no external form, it's bound to her hair. The personality seen is actually just the user using it's Stand. Anubis is a Stand bound to a sword, but Anubis does take form and thought, it just uses the sword to dominate a person and use its powers.
@herald. Nothing to fret over, there are too many details in JoJo so easy to forget. The Stand I'm talking about is Echoes Act 3. |
I was actually pretty confused about Yukako's Love Deluxe, as every Stand I've seen prior to this one had some kind of physical form, even if that form is immobile or extremely limited in function. (Even Hanged Man takes the form of a spark of light.) I had assumed Love Deluxe was her long black hair, as when she admitted defeat to Koichi, her hair had turned white and became shorter in length and I figured THAT was her natural hair. So there are a few Stands here and there that have no physical form and just manifest as powers for the user?
Thanks for the explanation about Stands being bound to souls. Anubis does seem capable of independent thought though, even if Anubis itself cannot move without a user.
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Herald Of JOJO
Joined: 16 Oct 2015
Posts: 144
Location: Malaysia
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 10:00 pm
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@Valhern Ohh. I don't remember it being independent of its user. Wow, you're right though. It is pretty sick.
@leafy sea dragon Oh, ok. So I'd imagine you are aware of the notable "big things" that happen in each part.
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leafy sea dragon
Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 10:14 pm
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Some of them, yes. I do know at least the names and appearances of each of the antagonists for the first seven parts and their reasons for doing what they do, but I'm sure there must be major things (and memetic things) I don't know about because the summaries didn't mention them or I forgot about them.
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Animechic420
Joined: 25 Sep 2012
Posts: 1731
Location: A Cave Filled With Riches
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Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 6:49 pm
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A real mind-f*cker of an episode.
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leafy sea dragon
Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
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Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 7:30 pm
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It was hilarious though. I didn't expect it to be set entirely in the restaurant with it simply being about Josuke and Okuyasu having lunch (well, mostly Okuyasu).
I know it'll never happen, but I'd like to see how people react if this episode was shown with no context whatsoever on the Food Network or the Cooking Channel.
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feuerwerke
Joined: 13 Jul 2012
Posts: 149
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Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:08 pm
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Okay 1. how dare you not want the EDM remix of Crazy Noisy Bizarre Town to stick around? It's so much better than the original. And 2. how could you fail to mention that, in this episode, a cute puppy does not die and simply has his indigestion cured?
(Before anyone jumps on me the admonishing tone of this post is a joke)
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BadNewsBlues
Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 6202
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Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:28 pm
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feuerwerke wrote: | Okay 1. how dare you not want the EDM remix of Crazy Noisy Bizarre Town to stick around? It's so much better than the original. And 2. how could you fail to mention that, in this episode, a cute puppy does not die and simply has his indigestion cured?
(Before anyone jumps on me the admonishing tone of this post is a joke) |
I would hope so the EDM version of CNBT is.....not as good as the original.
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John Thacker
Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 1008
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Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:02 pm
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The fake foreigner accent was fun. One part of it was the excessive use of "watashi" and "anata," more often than would be used in natural Japanese.
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feuerwerke
Joined: 13 Jul 2012
Posts: 149
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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:26 pm
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BadNewsBlues wrote: |
feuerwerke wrote: | Okay 1. how dare you not want the EDM remix of Crazy Noisy Bizarre Town to stick around? It's so much better than the original. And 2. how could you fail to mention that, in this episode, a cute puppy does not die and simply has his indigestion cured?
(Before anyone jumps on me the admonishing tone of this post is a joke) |
I would hope so the EDM version of CNBT is.....not as good as the original. |
To each their own. I personally like the EDM version a lot better. This was my silly way of saying so.
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leafy sea dragon
Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:34 pm
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"Chili Pepper Part 1" dragged on in the middle though, with Chili Pepper and Okuyasu just standing there talking to each other. The rest of the episode was nicely paced, but boy, talking really IS a free action in Morioh. (You also had the two of them at a standoff when Chili Pepper ran low on electrical power, but the other three slowly ambled their way over, which is jarring considering Jotaro was trying to warn Okuyasu not to attack Chili Pepper. You'd think he'd come running over to try to stop Okuyasu before he made his decision.)
Also, it looks like the motorcycle took two minutes to travel about fifty feet, looking at the perspective when Okuyasu destroyed the motorcycle from behind the JoJos' shoulders. I thought Chili Pepper was in a hurry.
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