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relyat08
Joined: 20 Mar 2013
Posts: 4125
Location: Northern Virginia
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:43 pm
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Knoepfchen wrote: | No, not offensive, but it sounded like Gabriella was projecting her own agenda into the movie, actively looking for something that most viewers might not have seen there, which I don't think is true. My problem was probably with the "LGBT stuff in response to the "yaoi thing" which seemed to degrade the Shinji-Kaworu relationship to something less genuine than other relationships in Evangelion. |
Ah, I see. That wasn't my intent at all. And I'm not saying that pointing out their relationship is looking for something that most people won't notice. It's more than obvious here. And I think that it is extremely believable and well-written.
When I said "remotely there", I wasn't specifically referring to this film. Just shows she reviews in general. She does look for it(which is totally okay, it just makes her opinion slightly less relevant to me). I don't notice a lot of the stuff she notices because I'm not looking for it. The amount of touching that my friends and I do on a regular basis would lead to absurd amounts of slash fanfiction. So when I see similar behavior in anime, I don't assume they are all gay. To be honest, it's a little annoying when people do. Sorry if that makes me a bad person, but I'm not at all interested in that. And it makes it harder for me to relate to characters when all I can see is them wanting to bone their buddies.
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LuScr
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
Posts: 143
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:33 pm
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It's hard to have an opinion about the thematic developments in Eva 3.33 when the execution was such a mess. Put simply, what we had in this movie was not a plot--it was a sequential series of events where characters who really should have known better took turns acting like idiots for the sake of advancing from Point A to Point Z. From Misato and Ritsuko feeding Shinji incomprehensible orders and misleading, minimalist explanations (apparently for the sake of leaving the viewer in the dark) where a full explanation would have been more productive, to Shinji suddenly and inexplicably deciding during the climax to ignore the warnings of Kaworu--whom he'd spent the entire second half of the film learning to rely on and trust--that something was wrong, nothing in this movie makes any sense. Events took place for the sake of events taking place, plausible characterization be damned.
Frankly, I don't know if it's possible for the final film to recover from this.
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VoidWitch
Joined: 14 Mar 2016
Posts: 157
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:30 pm
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Thank you for the review! I was thinking about getting back into Evangelion lately. I don't remember much about TV show at this point, but it will be interesting to see what new movies have to offer! I hope they are just as filled with references to psychology ~he he he
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CoreSignal
Joined: 04 Sep 2014
Posts: 727
Location: California, USA
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:36 pm
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penguintruth wrote: | Megumi Ogata makes Shinji sound like a vulnerable, meek youth, with varied layers of sensitivity and self-loathing. Spencer makes him sound like a whiny, obnoxious little stereotype coward, a flat, one-dimensional straw man for disaffected "wussy boys". He may as well sound like Milhouse van Houten. |
While I disagree with penguintruth about the movie, I have to agree with the assessment of the original English dub. Megumi Ogata's performance as Shinji is one of the greatest VA performances of all time, IMO. And I think Ogata's perfomance is more subtle as well. For instance, in all the scenes where Shinji talks to himself inside the cockpit Ogata whispers her lines just barely under her breath while Spencer sounds like he's mumbling to himself. Big difference in nuance for me. And nobody can do a bloodcurdling scream like Ogata can. I personally think the original English dub is average at best, but if you prefer the dub, that's fine with me. In any case, when Funimation does eventually license the NGE blu-rays, I would be ok if they did a new dub and I'm guessing they probably won't need Kickstarter this time.
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kotomikun
Joined: 06 May 2013
Posts: 1205
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:26 pm
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LuScr wrote: | Put simply, what we had in this movie was not a plot--it was a sequential series of events where characters who really should have known better took turns acting like idiots for the sake of advancing from Point A to Point Z. From Misato and Ritsuko feeding Shinji incomprehensible orders and misleading, minimalist explanations (apparently for the sake of leaving the viewer in the dark) where a full explanation would have been more productive, to Shinji suddenly and inexplicably deciding during the climax to ignore the warnings of Kaworu--whom he'd spent the entire second half of the film learning to rely on and trust--that something was wrong, nothing in this movie makes any sense. |
It does make sense, though. For the first bit: Shinji destroyed half the planet to save some girl, who was one of many clones, and it seems she wasn't saved in the end anyway. It's not terribly surprising that most of his former allies no longer trust him, especially Misato, who has some personal trauma associated with the previous Impact. He didn't intend to cause so much damage, but they have no way of knowing that, so they don't want to risk giving him too much information.
The climax happened because Shinji does, in fact, feel rather terrible about causing a massacre of indeterminate scale, on top of trapping Rei in the entry plug netherworld, and Kaworu had built up this idea that the two spears could fix everything. Everyone Shinji knew betrayed him, so he isn't feeling especially trusting; he only latches onto Kaworu because he literally creates harmony (piano duets) and makes things work again (cassette player) in a world that seems, especially to Shinji, to have nothing but hate and decay. When Kaworu starts to backtrack on the One Thing that will Definitely Make Everything Better, Shinji just goes, "to hell with it, I can't trust anyone, I'ma do this thing and good stuff will happen, probably!" Doesn't exactly work, but you can see why he did it.
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Videogamep
Joined: 10 Jun 2014
Posts: 564
Location: CA
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:47 pm
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kotomikun wrote: |
It does make sense, though. For the first bit: Shinji destroyed half the planet to save some girl, who was one of many clones, and it seems she wasn't saved in the end anyway. It's not terribly surprising that most of his former allies no longer trust him, especially Misato, who has some personal trauma associated with the previous Impact. He didn't intend to cause so much damage, but they have no way of knowing that, so they don't want to risk giving him too much information.
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That makes sense to a degree, but the movie didn't even really bring that up. If there had been even one scene with Misato, Asuka, etc. covering why they were so hostile it would have worked so much better. Also, it seemed like they were being cryptic for no reason regarding what happened with Rei and not telling Shinji that it was a clone. My reaction to this movie was that it had exposition constipation and really needed to take an exposition dump.
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Quark
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 710
Location: British Columbia, Canada
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:31 pm
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Videogamep wrote: |
That makes sense to a degree, but the movie didn't even really bring that up. If there had been even one scene with Misato, Asuka, etc. covering why they were so hostile it would have worked so much better. |
But..they didn't really have to spell it all out. Shinji destroyed half the planet...that's a pretty good reason to be hostile to someone. Also, there's a theory that they were vague with him because they weren't even sure if he actually was Shinji - if you look at his foot, it says something like 'S. Ikari????' on it.
Evangelion has never be the kind of show to just spoon feed its audience, which is one of the reasons why I love it so much. After 26 episodes and three movies, we should be able to understand these characters enough that we don't need to have everything explained to us.
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TarsTarkas
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 5914
Location: Virginia, United States
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:53 pm
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Shinji had no way of knowing he was destroying the planet and all those in NERV at that time know that the responsibility does not lie with Shinji, but with Misato. At least on the good side. On the bad side it is Gendo all the way.
No one told Shinji the mech he was in was capable of starting 3rd impact, wiping humanity out, and destroying the Earth. There are even more little secrets that they kept from Shinji throughout the TV series and the rebuild movies.
No one who knows Shinji has any right to look down on him for starting 3rd impact and all the destruction resulting from that action, especially Misato.
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penguintruth
Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 8493
Location: Penguinopolis
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:59 pm
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It doesn't even make sense that Shinji started the Third Impact because 1) pretty much everyone who was right there next to Eva Unit 01 at the end of movie 2 survived with no problem even though they were at ground zero and 2) Kaworu stopped the reaction at the end of movie 2 by lancing Unit 01. So when did this Third Impact start and how? Instead of getting any answers, we just get more questions.
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Videogamep
Joined: 10 Jun 2014
Posts: 564
Location: CA
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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:53 am
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Quark wrote: |
Videogamep wrote: |
That makes sense to a degree, but the movie didn't even really bring that up. If there had been even one scene with Misato, Asuka, etc. covering why they were so hostile it would have worked so much better. |
But..they didn't really have to spell it all out. Shinji destroyed half the planet...that's a pretty good reason to be hostile to someone. Also, there's a theory that they were vague with him because they weren't even sure if he actually was Shinji - if you look at his foot, it says something like 'S. Ikari????' on it.
Evangelion has never be the kind of show to just spoon feed its audience, which is one of the reasons why I love it so much. After 26 episodes and three movies, we should be able to understand these characters enough that we don't need to have everything explained to us. |
I would have been more surprised if they had been explicit about it. I just mean they should have given us something. A conversation with Misato and the others that didn't involve pointless mech transformations or being angrily cryptic would have fixed the entire issue. Even her being straight up angry with Shinji would have worked instead of just being cold and cryptic the entire time.
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HaruhiToy
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 4118
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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:47 am
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Videogamep wrote: | A conversation with Misato and the others that didn't involve pointless mech transformations or being angrily cryptic would have fixed the entire issue. Even her being straight up angry with Shinji would have worked instead of just being cold and cryptic the entire time. |
Because if NGE has a law it is that nobody can ever tells Shinji anything that makes sense or that he can trust or both.
For that matter if that's the way they felt about it why revive Shinji at all? Was that ever explained? If they just wanted to keep him out of Gendo's hands it would have made a lot more sense to keep him on ice even if they have to move it somewhere. They certainly didn't want him for any other reason I can see.
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Videogamep
Joined: 10 Jun 2014
Posts: 564
Location: CA
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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:30 am
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HaruhiToy wrote: |
Because if NGE has a law it is that nobody can ever tells Shinji anything that makes sense or that he can trust or both.
For that matter if that's the way they felt about it why revive Shinji at all? Was that ever explained? If they just wanted to keep him out of Gendo's hands it would have made a lot more sense to keep him on ice even if they have to move it somewhere. They certainly didn't want him for any other reason I can see. |
I got the impression that he revived on his own. Did they ever actually explain that part?
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CoreSignal
Joined: 04 Sep 2014
Posts: 727
Location: California, USA
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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 3:56 pm
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Videogamep wrote: | I would have been more surprised if they had been explicit about it. I just mean they should have given us something. A conversation with Misato and the others that didn't involve pointless mech transformations or being angrily cryptic would have fixed the entire issue. Even her being straight up angry with Shinji would have worked instead of just being cold and cryptic the entire time. |
It's possible that Misato's attitude toward Shinji will get explained in the fourth movie. For comparison, in the original show the origins of NERV, Gendo's history, the development of the Evas, etc. weren't revealed until episode 21. Maybe we'll get something in the final movie. This is Evangelion, though. At this point, I have no idea what to expect.
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kotomikun
Joined: 06 May 2013
Posts: 1205
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Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:12 am
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TarsTarkas wrote: | No one who knows Shinji has any right to look down on him for starting 3rd impact and all the destruction resulting from that action, especially Misato. |
Since when do people always make completely fair and reasonable judgements, especially about massive calamities that no one really wanted or expected (except Gendo)?
Shinji was piloting the robot when it did several impossible things, blowing up half the planet in the process. Then he disappeared for a decade and a half, leaving everyone else to clean up his mess and try to figure out what the hell happened. From our perspective, it seems insane to blame him for all this--he may be a tad unstable, but he couldn't intentionally massacre an anthill, let alone human beings--but most of the characters desperately want to blame someone, and either don't know that it was almost entirely Gendo's doing, or see him and Shinji as basically the same person (which isn't entirely wrong). But they also have some awareness that blaming a clueless kid for the latest Lovecraftian apocalypse is bit crazy, which is why they keep him alive, and why Misato doesn't kill him when he escapes.
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chronos02
Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 272
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Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:06 pm
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Quote: | In Rebuild, the Third Impact happens after the incident with Unit-03. But instead of the whole thing playing out End of Evangelion-style, here they manage to halt the process relatively early. The planet ends up transformed into a red wasteland, but nobody has turned into yellow goo yet. Rei seems to have died, and for what he did, Shinji is placed in stasis and locked away. |
After reading this second paragraph for the 3.33 movie, I could barely keep reading, feels as if the reviewer didn't watch the movie... or at most skimmed through it. It got better the more I read, yet this second paragraph was disappointing.
Here's what's supposed to have happened, based on a lightly done research of mine that has taken around 20 minutes:
First of all, it is not clear who or what causes the third impact to stop "early" between 2.22 and 3.33, it does feel like Kaworu is the cause, but the movie doesn't give a clear answer to that; still, the consequences are fatal for the planet, all of humanity gets transformed into the weird eva-looking mutations which are the result of humans failing to become "infinity", they spread throughout the now reddish planet, this one also having been transfigured, where the black moon's Geofront used to be, into a monstruous mouth-like cavity and an enormous eye-shaped hole (possibly hinting to the "eye" that appears in tEoE). The only survivors of the third impact are those who were inside NERV's facilities at the time it occured, in ground zero, and as Kaworu states during all this revelation to Shinji "Mass extitntions are not uncommon for this planet".
Then there's the matter of Rei II, she is never confirmed dead or alive during the movie, they do say she was never recovered from within unit 01's interior or if what happened at the end of 2.22 was only Shinji's allucination of him rescuing Rei from within Zeruel's KOA/Core (still, Rei II is rumored to still be alive, since Shinji's Walkman is within Unit 01's Entry Plug, and Rei II took it with her before engaging Zeruel, afterwards getting eaten by it, meaning the "transfer" from Zeruel's core to the unit 01's Entry plug does happen), it is an unresolved mistery. They do, however, say that all the Rei till number 08 are dead, and that they were killed by WILLE.
Finally, in the movie they say that Shinji is the cause for the third impact, however, during 2.22 they do tell him to go inside unit 01 in order to defeat Zeruel and support Rei, even with the risk of him triggering some sort of catastrophe. During 2.22's final moment, however, the Eva 01 is stopped from triggering the third impact by Kaworu and Unit Mk.06, which is afterwards revealed to be fused with Lilith, the real cause of impacts or mass exctintions/evolution - Evas are but copies of the Adam, which when fused with its original or with Lilith, can cause the so called impacts, the same goes for angels, which are in essence the same thing, same as humans -, Meaning this is all but Shinji's fault, so WILLE's crew is simply blaming him just to vent their pent up anger on someone, OR something which involves Shinji happened after Kaworu stopped Unit 01.
In any case, trying to summarize an evangelion movie in a single paragraph without the use of the word "mindfuck" is all but impossible, there are far too many references to previous instalments to make any sense of it, and small details tend to cause misunderstandings, plus Anno toying with the viewers (such as seeing tEoE Black Moon-lookalike floating around half exploded) makes handling this one or any Eva movie something akin to poking a hornet's nest. Fortunately the heat of the movie died down a while ago, but I'm sure we'll soon hear more about the fourth instalment, and then the internets will be set ablaze... followed by Funimation stalling its release for god knows how much time.
I already bought the Japanese release, which I'm quite happy with (getting it 3 years earlier and all), plus it doesn't have that detestable black or blue line on top of the box.
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