Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Shōwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjū
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Merida
 Posts: 1945 |
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Thank you for putting this into words so much more eloquently than i ever could!  I loved this episode, "melodrama" included because it just felt right for the way this story's been told.
My only fear now is that just one more ep. won't be able to give us a satisfying conclusing. There are 5 more volumes of manga left, more than enough for a second season...*crosses fingers* |
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Naera
Posts: 9 |
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I'm following the Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu episode reviews of Gabriella from the start and while I know this is a subjective thing I must really say I don't like her style of reviewing.
The reviewer constantly imposes on readers her very detailed interpretations of characters actions and meaning of particular scenes, interpretations so rigid, so specific and going so deep they are frequently arguable. While this can have advantages - the review is more analytic and more personal, this week review shows very clearly cons of going too far with it - namely that rigid interpretations of characters and actions don't always come together at the end of the journey, leaving reviewer with not connected lines of thought about the meaning of the show, forcing her to directly contradict the events or to straight out admitting she doesn't understand what happened. I would really want to read the review which doesn't contain only dubious interpretations and statements of reviewers' confusion like this one does. But maybe it's just me. |
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Lemonchest
Posts: 1771 |
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That's more a flaw with the whole concept of as-it's-airing episode reviews: you're trying to analyze something that is incomplete. Not knowing what will happen in the next episode, let alone the rest of the series, means all these things boil down to is conjecture, often self-reinforcing to the point that you become so convinced about how something will play out that it not doing so is a failure of the show, rather than of your expectations (see all the brouhaha about Erased not being the whodunit it never was). At the end of the day, most episode reviews are little more than "I watched this. Did you see this? What does it mean? Lets find out next week," even if the word count suggests otherwise. |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11505 |
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Then come here and argue them. That's what the comment section is for.
No one is imposing their views on you, unless you feel that anyone voicing an opinion different from yours is imposing on you. You're free to not read them, or to read them and reject them. Either way, feel free to post what you agree and disagree with and why. How do you interpret things? |
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whiskeyii
 Posts: 2265 |
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I have to admit, while I don't always agree with how Gabriella views things, I do always find her reviews to be well-written, and they provide a nice jumping off point for me to formulate or comment on my own views. For example, I'm not totally sold on the idea that Kiku reciprocates Miyokichi's advancements in order to basically get her to play along with his domestic fantasy, but I think it's a good talking point to center a discussion around. For me, it could've been for a number of reasons, ranging from "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" to acting on guilt or remorse, to even a rare moment of lust. But without Gabriella actually articulating her point about that scene, in all likelihood, I'd have just shrugged and thought "Well, that was odd", and went on my merry way.
So, yeah, while I might not always agree with what Gabriella writes, I do appreciate that her insights for this show seem to bring up some really excellent discussions about various points leveled in her reviews. It's a shame not all review threads generate this level of conversation, but this is probably one of the few threads I've really enjoyed taking part in, however minimal my own contribution. |
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Knoepfchen
 Posts: 698 |
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I don't always agree with Gabriella's take on things, either (e.g. Konatsu being a product of revenge), but if I (and all of you) did, I would probably get bored reading the reviews and thoughts rather quickly. I expect the episodic reviews to be personal, if well articulated, impressions, which is the case here. When a whole series is reviewed, there is more need for objectivity (not that there really is such a thing in media critique), but this show being as open to interpretation as it is, it's only natural people will bring very different takes to the table, especially since we still have to see how many things will play out, or if this particular show will even find it necessary to decide for us. I don't need every sentence to start with "I think..." to take many things as subjective. If the reviewer can make the case for why they think that way, the review serves its purpose for me.
edit: Oh, thank you, Merida. 
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VoidWitch
 Posts: 157 |
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This ^ I was too late. Criticism and view of art is always subjective. That's the whole point. (Most of the time) Especially with shows like Rakugo. While i do have my personal interpretations, i really do like to try and think out of the box and bring other points of perspective onto the scene. This way i feel like i have better understanding of the media piece in general. I don't have to agree with something in order to appreciate it. (I do agree with a lot of things Gabriella is talking about tho) |
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Naera
Posts: 9 |
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I understand this and this indeed is essentially insurmountable problem for episodic reviews. But reading the Gabrielle's reviews for Rakugo I have some doubts to what extent she is aware of the problem and I'm afraid she needlessly amplifies it. What I don't like in her style is not her interpretations themselves. Ok, honestly I really don't like some of them but I don't feel it's the most important. I don't like the premature conviction with which she presents them to the reader combined with occasional lack of any grounds for them and the stubbornness with which she holds to them later on. And I'm not particularly fond of the ratio of her theories to the more tangible things either - some episode reviews contain exclusively the reviewer deeply psychoanalyzing characters (like in ep. 6) I don't like also how she so assuredly determines things so early in the show. Like in the episode 8 we learned that:
Really? It's not only that I totally don't agree with this interpretation, it's I don't understand how did she come to this conclusion without any hesitation (there still are 5 episodes to come, everything we know might change) It is taken to the level on which the reviewer takes her complex theories and basing on them tries to predict what and how exactly will happen in the next episode, like in episode 7 when she writes:
where the phrase 'Kikuhiko feelings' represents the reviewer's favorite theory that Kiku subconsciously suppresses sexual desire for Sukeroku due to societal norms. This added to the theories that Sukeroku is mysteriously not aware of Kiku's feelings for him, that Miyokichi's relationship with Sukeroku is only some elaborate revenge on Kiku on her part, that Kiku exhibits total disinterest in the opposite sex and that the love triangle has the structure Kikuhiko wants Sukeroku, Sukeroku wants Miyokichi, and Miyokichi wants Kikuhiko combined with the reviewer unwillingness to amend at least some of them results in the episode 12 review being at least partially declaration of the reviewer's helplessness. That actually wouldn't be that painful but when the review is so focused on the fan/reviewer's interpretation it becomes glaring. Don't get me wrong - I like different theories and character studies, I don't have to agree with them to like reading them, and it's also possible that almost everything that Gabrielle has written is somehow correct. And I like that her reviews made me think about the show more. I don't like however the insistence on writing basically only about characters motivations, and the exhaustiveness and inflexibility Gabrielle's interpretations exhibit. |
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sunflower
 Posts: 1080 |
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I know you guys don't mean to spoil things, but having one parson hide spoilers then others talking indirectly about it really doesn't help. Leaving the thread until next week, even though it's been half spoiled for me already.
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xyz
Posts: 243 |
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Heck, rakugo is just an excuse Bon used to get away from Miyo. If he really wanted her he would have kept her or both her and rakugo. But she believed what she wanted to believe (and was in denial that Bon only could be emotionally connected to Shin. She never had a chance with Bon. What did he do to her that was so bad to justify a revenge?) Miyo only wants what she wants and when things doesn't go accordingly to her plan, she destroys. She never loved anyone but herself. I want to like her but I can't. It's too bad Shin loves her and pays the price for it. And poor Bon, he loses his lifelong patana because he came across a crazy and obsessive woman. Then again, there wouldn't be a story to tell.
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HelloBucket
 Posts: 477 Location: Upstate New York |
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I'm going to disagree with this. A minor complaint of mine with the series has been that I feel like the direction is a touch off. Especially for what is a story told by one person from their perspective (potentially with embellishments) the direction itself lacks a sense of a consistent personality. It feels like directorial decisions are being made scene by scene by committee vote. I've found the viewing experience jarring and I find myself getting thrown out of the show on occasion by it. in reply to Naera's thoughts on the review style: One thing I find somewhat galling about Gabriella's review is that I'm leery of insisting someone who hasn't made any overt declarations or sexual advances of that nature is gay. As well-intentioned as it almost surely is, this seems to promote an unhealthy train of thought about these things. "He isn't interested enough in girls, and he's slightly effeminate, he must be gay." Conjecture is fine, but the insistence makes it feel more like imposition than understanding. Less of a criticism, and more of just a general comment is I think this is first case since I started reading ANN reviews where I feel reading them has actually hurt my enjoyment of the show. I find myself better able to relate to the characters before reading the review than after. I see things i can connect to in the show versions of the characters, but not the review versions of the characters. I suspect, though, that if I were to really measure it out Gabriella's character interpretations are stronger and mine are just an attempt to find something to hold on to in a show that I haven't connected with very well on any level. Which is odd, because one of my own personal stories involves a woman very akin to Miyokichi. Thankfully no one died for that one, except me a little inside. |
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whiskeyii
Posts: 2265 |
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Fair enough (though I am sorry to hear about your own personal Miyokichi). I don't find her views on Kiku to be insistent so much as Gabriella making it very, very clear that her take on this series involves interpreting Kiku to be gay. Obviously, not everyone shares that view, as we've seen in these forums. Personally, I'm leaning towards Kiku being homoromantic, but possibly gray-sexual or just with a very low sex drive. For me, I feel like the show is taking a lot of pains to paint Kiku and Sukeroku's relationship as something akin to one-sided romance, if not outright romance. And it wasn't so much just that Kiku seemed disinterested in women, or that he acted feminine (did he? I honestly couldn't tell. o.O Or did you mean the feminine acting parts?) It's that the show went out of it's way to have lines like "Does that guy even like women?" or their atypical intimacy like the ear-cleaning and lap pillows. So, for someone like me--who is not a big fan of romance, hetero, homo, or otherwise, who usually needs to be beaten over the head with symbolism to get it--to feel like the show was plastering neon signs saying "Kiku likes Sukeroku" all over the place...well, I think it says something that someone as clueless as me walked away with the same impression as Gabriella even without her interpretation egging me on. ^^; But hey, plenty of folks have walked away with a "they're closer than brothers" feel, so if that works for you, it works for you. |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11505 |
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If that's all that was present here, I'd probably agree with you, but there's quite a bit more in what is said and done and how to base this on. Since this is fiction, the background of the author and the directorial choices in positioning and framing, etc. are cues that can and probably should be considered as well to determine who these characters are without anyone stating it plainly. |
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VoidWitch
Posts: 157 |
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I think you are forgetting that in east-asia bishonen characters usually portrayed more as metrosexuals and womanizers and very very rarely as actual gay characters. (Tamaki Suo from Ouran and Griffith from Berserk are great examples of that) The shows usually are very quick to show us that the character is not gay by making them approach female character or by making them blush in front of some boobies and panties or by them being mad about the fact that they are always mistaken for a girl etc. (And when we are talking about bishonen, we are not talking just about pretty. We are talking about androgynous or feminine demeanor.) This is why it's nice to see Kumota smash down the trope with a hammer and show us that Kiku is actually quite uncomfortable (sexually) around woman. Not just shy, but actually uncomfortable. It's not just about all the phallic symbolism and "fanservice"(which is not really a fanservice). It's about very specific archetype Kumota uses as a base to create Kiku character. (as well as some other narrative clues) I can go into details if you want, but for now i will just say that there are two gay individuals who have been on my mind for quite a while since very first episode and who fit Kiku's "paradigm" quite well. It makes sense for Kiku to be gay in terms of a narrative as well. We have three characters who don't meet standards of society in one way or another. Miyokichi as "not a wife material" character who struggles with acceptance. Sukeroku as someone who doesn't respect the authority (which in east-asia is pretty much a "suicide"). And then we have Kiku who seems to fit the standard quite well until you dig a little bit further. It's also makes sense for Kiku to envy Shin's freedom and be an emotional shut in. And then you add all the obvious clues on top of the cake plus the name of the last arc of the manga as a cherry. I have other things to say, but this is it for now. The evidence just seems to pile up more and more in my opinion. Last edited by VoidWitch on Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Animechic420
 Posts: 1731 Location: A Cave Filled With Riches |
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And this episode proves my point as to why I never wanted Miyokichi to get involved with Kikuhiko or Sukeroku. She's an unstable whore!
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