Forum - View topicNEWS: Runners up for Kodansha Manga Contest Announced
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SharinganEye
 Posts: 402 Location: Les Etats-Unis d'Amérique |
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Great for them! rem's artwork is very pretty.
Though I still think that Shimada's statements about manga only serve to obfuscate the rather uniquely complex and bizarre nature of "manga" and perhaps serve a commercial and egotistical purpose for a subset of foreign artists... Nevertheless I am glad that there's quality fusion going on. |
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nomp
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I couldnt disagree more. When he said -- "Manga includes everything such as superhero comics and European comics etc" -- He pretty much said that 'manga' to him is everything in regards to comics and that the more western view of manga that has some specific artistic style or storytelling style that originates in Japan (and some might say only originate there) is false from his viewpoint as well as Japan's. I happen to agree with that belief that people in the west make manga into something it isnt: It is comics. I think his words serve to illustrate that the label 'manga' is a lot more inclusive than many people in the west think it is, and it is the west's use of the word where the label has become obfuscated to, perhaps, serve egotistical purposes for a subset of foreign readers who perhaps would rather see the term 'manga' has a exclusionary label. |
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SharinganEye
Posts: 402 Location: Les Etats-Unis d'Amérique |
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To me manga has no definite shape, form or style. It is a subset of a medium; it encompasses all genre and all styles. As such, I cannot understand the use of "manga" to denote a style of art or storytelling. Just because something is prevalent in a medium does not make it its defining characteristic, an identifier perhaps, but not a mold to be cast over as a blanket value. This contest bothers me because it is obviously looking for series that emulate Japanese comics. In fact, Shimada clearly differentiates "comic" from "manga," and says that it has no pre-defined "form," which is something I agree wholeheartly with. But at the same time it gives impression that it treats foreign comics as no different from "manga," at least on basis of any style used. So, what exactly is the criteria here? He seems to fail to recognize the one thing that separates something that is "manga" from something that is "comics," perhaps because he is Japanese. That is, subsets of a medium--in this case, comics--categorized by country or region is done on the basis of that country's uniqueness and so the country itself, or more specifically, culture. Manga is not some wonderfully superior form of comics, it is a cultural extension of Japan. Without that authenticity of culture, the very thing that differentiates a comic from a Japanese comic, then manga is an absolutely worthless and bloated label serving only as a market bandwagon catch-all phrase to make a few more bucks by milking the customers. Like Shimada said, a medium cannot have a definite style, only a popular style. So, as a medium cannot be restricted by a style nor genre, the one thing that logically separates an American comics experience from a Japanese one is the authenticity and uniqueness of culture and national identity of which that title was imbued with in its creation, whether readily apparent or not. If I analyzed popular French cinema of the last 10 years and systematically applied an x amount of OTS shots or a y value of exposition derived from that analysis in my own film, that does not make my film any more French than an Armenian ex-pat living in Norway claiming to be a Turk by having listened to Turkish music. This latching on to the "manga" label instead of taking what's good from it and creating our own unique thing that can stand on its own merits is sad and disturbing. This is the main reason why I disagree with Tokyopop's so-called "OEL manga." I have the utmost respect for comic artists. I know how hard it is to create anything whether it be a story during NaNoWriMo, a one-shot comic strip, or an editorial for your local newspaper. However, if they can't have enough respect for themselves to be proud of their own work without holding on to a pacifier of a term distorted into a style, then I have none for them. If people really are that desperate to hang on to some Japanese-ness in their works for want of Japanese-ness, then might as well call it "comikku" instead of "OEL manga." |
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minakichan
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"For example, in many cases, the first meeting with these artists began by defining the concept of “manga.” In those days, other than Asian artists, these foreign artists were very talented comic artists, but not necessarily manga artists."
"For example, to our surprise, in the US, only manga created in Japan is considered “true manga” even though works of US artists certainly look and feel like manga and utilize manga’s visual grammar. " "Manga includes everything such as superhero comics and European comics etc. Even if the style of the work looks different from manga, it is manga as long as the creator thinks it is manga." The FRICK man. What the hell is manga? Is manga all comics? Is Superman manga? If so, what the hell is manga's "visual grammar," and if my comics don't have that, is it still manga? If all European comics are manga, how can there be comic-but-not-manga artists? If I take a piece of toast, or, as Svetlana Chmakova might suggest, fried cheese, and I hypnotize myself to believe it's manga (or heck, if I pull a Duchamp or Warhol and just SAY it's manga), is it manga? I know someone somewhere is going to pull an "eye of the beholder" argument, but seriously, common sense has to kick in SOMEWHERE. Mona Lisa is not a type of music, and if I accidentally drop a crayon on my floor, it's not art, even if someone somewhere finds some zomghiddenartisticmeaning behind it. I sometimes support OEL, but this guy is just out there. I wholeheartedly believe that Dragonball Z, Garfield, and my little brother all share this same attribute-- they are all manga. OK, honestly? THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS MANGA. |
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SharinganEye
Posts: 402 Location: Les Etats-Unis d'Amérique |
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Tokyopop would be proud of this man.
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GATSU
Posts: 15551 |
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You tell it, brother! |
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Unholy_Nny
 Posts: 622 |
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I'm sure some post-post-modern artistic freaks would consider that art... If not, we could add another post to the title and start a new form of art! =O I personally avoid manga-styled Western comics because 90%(atleast, I'm pretty sure that number should be higher.) of it isn't done by professionals, and then end up looking like a cheap fan comic. Which is fun to share with your friends, or post on the web or something, but it shouldn't be being sold to the masses. But, sadly, it's also a cheap and easy way for TokyoPop to license new material for publishing... |
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