Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Owarimonogatari
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Sahmbahdeh
Posts: 713 |
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For episode 4, I saw Ougi's seduction (if you will) of Araragi and argument with Hanekawa to be a symbolic of her attacking Araragi's securities, one by one. Hanekawa represents solidity, stability in his life, and Ougi is, for whatever reason, trying to break that down. She's been trying to break down Araragi in general for this whole season so far, and it's really compelling, in a lot of ways. I really like Ougi as a character so far, and this episode really emphasized that.
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Clarste
Posts: 432 |
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Re: Episode 5:
The line about "no one can make someone who doesn't try to be happy happy" is a direct quote from Medaka Box. Nisio really loves reusing his themes. |
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HaruhiToy
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As did the review. Bravo Nick. One thing not mentioned about how remarkable it was is how it managed to make Ougi so completely disappear. Not only from the stage but from any line of thought the anime or its audience had. It is hard to imagine what would have transpired had Ougi been there and not Hanekawa. |
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Hiroki not Takuya
 Posts: 2599 |
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As an "outsider" to the Monogatari universe and having given the current Ep.1,4,5 a try, I'd have to say wow, I did not get what you guys got from this at all. This reminds me of Macbeth Act 5, Scene 5. Like last week's 20 minute wordy "face-off" between Ougi and Hanekawa on arrangements to go see Oikura. Boobs win, the end. I just had to laugh. If you want real math with that, apply the transform e(3i*pi/2) to the complex plane containing a figure of the number "3" to see the meaning. Enjoy.
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killjoy_the
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Araragi would've had some tea thrown at him |
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Juno016
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1) Monogatari isn't for everyone. Some people feel insulted by its semi-erotic tendencies while others find the context of the dialogue and characterization actually utilizes these weird scenes to their best potential to bring us closer to the characters--something unique for something that advertises parts of itself on this fanservice. Other people just find it boring because it's an anime based on a series of novels that are mostly dialog and exposition written to be thought-provoking more than visual interesting (NISIOISIN, the writer of the novels, is particularly notorious for this style of writing, and it has a huge audience). If SHAFT's visual choices don't capture you in the midst of the dialog and such, then it might not be for you. It's not a bad show and you don't have to understand the appeal, but the fact that it captures the hearts (and not just the libidos) of so many fans like me should be a testament to its quality. 2) But despite all that, I think starting the show at one of the final (?) seasons was a bad idea. Not only has it gotten into a routine by now, but it also has gotten through practically everything you'd want to know as background to this arc, such as Hanekawa's story (which influences her attitude here). And skipping episodes is never a good idea in an anime so dependent on linear storytelling. It doesn't go back to remind you of previous events often, unlike some anime that have recaps. It expects you to be up-to-date. If you want to start the series, do it in order. If Bakemonogatari doesn't appeal to you much either, whether for the same reasons or other reasons, then you can safely say this isn't your kind of show. No disrespect or anything. I just thought it was kind of reasonable to suggest that not many people could get enjoyment out of such a dialog-carried, character-focused series late in the game, during what seem to be its closing bundle of arcs, if the novels are anything to go by. |
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Animelover12313
Posts: 278 |
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May I ask just how much of an "outsider" are you? Have you at least seen a few episodes of Bakemonogatari? (The beginning of the show) to at least have a feel of what this anime is about? Or are 1,4, and 5 of Owarimonogatari your first episodes of the series as a whole? If so, why do you start with Owari (Literally means the end) and not at the beginning? And why the skip of episode 2 and 3? How can you even skip episodes of a story and wanted to understand it? If you have trouble understanding why most of us are into the show, I'd advise you to go watch Bakemonogatari at the very least. EDIT: But to be completely honest with you, I did the very same thing with this series. I started watching the series starting with Nisemonogatari and I asked the same thing of why people enjoyed such boring things with only dialogues and nothing cool happens so I dropped the show then. Then when I found out that Bakemonogatari was actually the beginning, I gave it another try and here I am, been a big fan of the series since. |
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NeverConvex
 Subscriber Posts: 2456 |
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I never really enjoyed Monogatari prior to reading Nick's reviews. I was put off exactly by the frequent appearance of fanservice/eroticism that Hiroki mentions; this didn't fit my general sense of how a thoughtful story should carry itself visually. Nick's review Nisemonogatari and the Nature of Fanservice completely changed my mind on this issue, though, and kickstarted my gormandizing the entire series; as Nick argues, Monogatari very often explicitly integrates fanservice into its core messages and themes, not as a crude marketing gimmick but as a necessary component of what it'd like to say to and evoke from its audience.
That said, I don't think Hanekawa's "I'll show you my boobs!" in Owari seems, so far, like an especially good example of Monogatari's intelligent use of fanservice. It's not an especially thoughtless one, either - it fits what we know about Hanekawa and especially Araragi - but I'm not sure I yet entirely understand what Ougi represents or means, and that might eventually lend significance Hanekawa's desperately crude attempt to shock Araragi back to his senses. Anyway, I'd largely reiterate the earlier replies, Hikori; I don't think Owari is really built as an arc to be understood and enjoyed in isolation from prior Monogatari arcs. I can't imagine I would personally enjoy just watching Owari having not watched the preceding arc (except perhaps for its aesthete, which is always unusually expressive and top-notch). If you really want to give Monogatari a test run, I'd personally recommend watching the arcs in the order they aired, stopping to read Nick's prior essays (as BobDuhBuilder on Reddit, or at his blog, Wrong Every Time) when relevant. Last edited by NeverConvex on Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Hiroki not Takuya
Posts: 2599 |
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Hi Animelover12313, these are the first episodes I have seen period, no Baka/Nise varients. I wanted to get an idea what the series was like since I have seen such good reviews for it. The interest in Kizumonogatari also seems real and the fans long-suffering which speaks to strong appeal. I started here thinking it would be a springboard to Kizu but I obviously did not know the ordering. Thanks for sharing about your own "journey", I may just do that and I agree with that idea as I usually try to start at ther beginning myself. However, it may be as Juno016 says and it may not be wind up being "for me". Again, thanks for not hating!
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dm
 Subscriber Posts: 1436 |
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You wrote this long before episode 5, but with this episode, I think Oikura and Hanekawa are being set up as contrasts, and that is why it was important for Hanekawa to be there. Hiroki not Takuya: to understand the enthusiasm people have for this series, you really should start with Bakemonogatari, which is where we all started, and where we got the first exposure to things like the full flowering of the Shaft visual style (stark, stylized, draftsman-like backgrounds, variations on the color palette, camera angles, the screen as stage setting), and the setup of dialogue and mystery. You could stop there, too: the series that have followed have largely been coasting on the momentum of those episodes, to varying degrees of success. But along with that coasting has come more visual experimentation, and learning more about the tiny ensemble of characters (while introducing new characters, some of whom are interesting, some of whom are not). I like this series (of series) a ton, but there are some arcs I doubt I'll ever look at again. |
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HaruhiToy
Posts: 4118 |
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First of all, that was just a joke. (and she offered to have him touch not just look). It was just Hanekawa's rather pithy and effective way of telling Araragi to stop overthinking this choice and stop the babble and just get back to his basic instincts. She had perfect confidence that in this case by unhooking his brain and plugging in his balls what the choice would be. Neither of the characters had any expectation that the promise would be followed up on. The audience should not have either. I think there was also an artful message to Ougi there beyond the one of obvious territorial dominance, but I am not sure what it is. Second, it is a pretty low standard when you consider a single line like that to be and example fan service. Owarimonogatari has no fan service worthy of mention. |
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Animelover12313
Posts: 278 |
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Hiroki not Takuya Yeah, the show is definitely not for everyone. You either love it or hate it and there's barely any middle ground so if you like Bake then you'll like the series, if not then you're not. Simple. Hope you enjoy it and join our fandom!
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Victor Gene
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We have a serious AOTY here, in only 1 episode (first one) showed all the potential, now every episode is just plain amazingly written.
I took of my hat to Nisio. The fight between Shirobako and Owarimonogatari for the first place is real (if we consider shirobako 2015 for ending this year, if not it's a race won by Owarimonogatari from start to end) |
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NeverConvex
Subscriber Posts: 2456 |
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Haruhi:
I agree that it wasn't a great example of fan service per se; that's why I wrote (or thought I wrote?) fan service/crude eroticism, or something to that effect! I don't think it much matters whether the audience thought the offer would be fulfilled. It's more that, if you're not down with Monogatari's general use of fan service/eroticism (edit: I keep lapsing into mentioning one and not the /other; I feel like they're the same general theme here, though), it is a jarring change of pace in the tenor of conversation, and in a way that makes you suddenly think the conversation isn't actually as intelligent as it seems, because it suddenly introduced a hyper-erotic element unnecessarily. That makes it appear very suddenly juvenile, and the juxtaposition throws the viewer off-kilter. I agree about our not really yet knowing what this means, given the mystery that is Ougi. I look forward to her unraveling.[/i] |
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Suncraft
Posts: 44 |
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What a wonderful arc in a wonderful series.
Nice review too. Oikura has been written wonderfully. I agree that she might have been written to contrast with Hanekawa, as the camra did focus on Hanekawa's face as she was talking about acceptance of her situation. |
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