Forum - View topicNEWS: Illustrator Arrested for Allegedly Obscene Manga Sales
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Kiyoko
 Posts: 131 Location: Pennsylvania |
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I'm a bit lost. Does this mean Japan is banning all sales of obscene manga? I thought it was still OK to sell as long as it couldn't get into the hands of minors. If they are, does that mean that creating and selling fan-made doujinshi will be seen as an arrestable offense? |
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pat_payne
Posts: 179 |
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It never was legal to sell obscene works in Japan. Much like here in the US, there is a legalistic difference between "indecent" (normal, even hardcore pornographic) and "obscene" (regulated and banned by law) works. You can sell something that's indecent legally and openly, but the government has the right to sieze, prosecute and destroy in the matter of obscene works. Now how "obscenity" is defined is a matter of great debate (Potter Stewart, an old SCOTUS justice, threw up his hands during one such hearing and said "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it") and many times it's dependant (at least her in the US) on community perception -- what's indecent in San Francisco or New York may be obscene in Memphis, Tennessee. Might be the same in Japan, where perhaps one could get away with publishing something in Tokyo that would not pass muster in Matsuyama. There's another answer, though, as well. I don't know all the legal particulars in Japan, but I do know that due to Article 175 of the Japanese Constitution, obscenity is defined, among other things, as showing actual adult genitalia (male or female). That's why most hentai is mosaiced, blurred or barbie-dolled for Japanese consumption, because it's illegal to show the actual genital region in porn over there. That may be what the accused did -- showed areas of the body proscribed by Japanese obscenity law. This will have little-to-no effect on Doujinshi, most likely, if what he did was cross the line into violating Article 175. It may just be a wake-up call to others to remember to keep the one-eyed trouser snake out of sight or barred out during sex scenes. |
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ultrapostman
 Posts: 164 Location: New Jersey. Don't you just love traffic circles? |
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I wonder if any action will be taken against the printing company that he used. They must have known what was being made, since there were over 11,000 copies. Or maybe it was all done by machines and they felt no need to check
 . I mean, it's illegal to produce obscene manga right? 'Cause there is a difference between producing it and distributing it. If this guy got the manga printed one place, and then sold it to several stores for them to sell, then I think they should all share the guilt.
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KyuuA4
 Posts: 1361 Location: America, where anime and manga can be made |
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The standards for "obscene" is obviously different between various country, with this case US and Japan. Our American idea of "obscene" is a slight nipple shot. There, I'm willing to assume a lot more than that.
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Dargonxtc
 Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
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It must have been showing private areas, or perhaps the characters in question were to young. True it said it wasn't labeled correctly, but why not say it was showing to much skin, or had young characters in it, instead only blaming the obscenity on consignment???? I don't think that subject alone would warrant the obsene label. Note: From the video, it looks as if it was fairly well made(from binding to art). I wish they would have showed some of the milder examples as to why this was considered obsene though. |
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pat_payne
Posts: 179 |
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To an extent. By producing the printing plates (or hosting the digital files in the case of more modern printing techniques), the printer/publisher is in possession of illegal material. And they did have a legal right (and perhaps an obligation) to refuse any order they saw fit to, especially if it brought them into trouble with the law. The stores, I'm not so sure about. Perhaps, but OTOH, one can't expect a bookseller to personally read every title in his/her/their stock and be familiar with them all -- there's not enough hours in the day for that. It could be that this consignment of shrink-wrapped books were sold to the sellers, they weren't sure of/weren't told the exact truth about the content and thought, in good faith, that it was legal. IANL, but that would be my defense if I were in that position. |
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pat_payne
Posts: 179 |
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[quote="Dargonxtc"]instead only blaming the obscenity on consignment???? [quote]
Dargon, You may be misreading it. I take the mention of consignment as perhaps a willful means of selling, sight-unseen, obscene material, meaning that the author (and perhaps the printer) knew that what they were selling was not going to pass legal muster. I agree with you that the material was probably in violation of the "no genitals" clause of Article 175. Who knows? Maybe the author wanted to be arrested and prosecuted to spark a free-speech fight, as a means of sparking a rebellion against those provisions of Japanese law. BTW: I like your new avatar. I always thought Misa was sexier than Minmay 
Last edited by pat_payne on Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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Well they do have comics out there in Japan that happen to have uncensored genitalia, but how they get into the Japanese market confuses me now if they're supposedly "obscene". This law is a very interesting one, yet Japan produces a fairly large amount of porn. |
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pat_payne
Posts: 179 |
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Probably just as things here that are obscene get out into the wild -- there's only a finite number of law-enforcement officers, and they can't go and track every report of obscene publishing when they have murderers, rapists and stock cheats to go and bust. Also people have to report the material. There may have been a sting, or a shopkeep decided to break open a copy and browse it and didn;t like what he saw, or a PTA person. Also, in some parts of Japan, as they've been reporting, there has been a crwackdown on obscene manga, so these reports may become more common.
Here, you're confusing "pornographic" for "obscene." Most porn, even the hardcore stuff, is considered "indecent". "Obscene" carries an actual legal definition meaning works that are not protected by whatever free-speech guarantees are in effect due to their content putting them outside the pale. |
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Dargonxtc
Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
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Oh! Duh.  The first thing I thought of when I read that was consignment as the subject. E.g. human consignment, which is a widely accepted practice in dozens of countries, and could lead to multiple levels of obscenity through the course of a graphic novel.
And thanks, I agree about Misa. She's only sticking around for a little while though. |
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DmonHiro
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I can not for the life of figure out what could be considered "obscene". Anyone have some kind of example?
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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I see. It's just that at times when I've been in Japan there have been hardcore titles within the adult sections of places such as Book Off and other second hand retailers, and I would bet that some of those titles are uncensored as well. I also think that sometimes the people who will buy back these books and go ahead and sell them don't think twice about the title, because it only means money if they can get it out the door. |
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rg4619
Posts: 163 |
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Several people (publishers, authors) have been busted for it before. Uncensored genitalia can't be legally shown, but if enforcement is lax, people will try to get away with it (same goes for the many sex services in Japan). It's like the situation with pirated music, video games, and movies (big issue in Canada, apparently, with authorities mostly turning a blind eye to it). All 100% illegal, but that doesn't stop vendors from openly selling it in major malls and shops, provided that they have a good chance of not getting caught/punished. |
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pat_payne
Posts: 179 |
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Pardon my ignorance, but I've never heard of "consignment" used in that kind of manner. What do you mean by it (if, of course, it's not gonna violate the TOS  )?
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SharinganEye
 Posts: 402 Location: Les Etats-Unis d'Amérique |
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