Forum - View topicNEWS: Australia Fines Man for Importing Pornographic Anime
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ultrapostman
 Posts: 164 Location: New Jersey. Don't you just love traffic circles? |
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This topic has been going on for a while and shows no sign of stopping, so I think maybe we can all agree to call it a draw. We can all agree that the existence of lolicon has both positive and negative side effects, but so would its banning. Pedophile A might not rape a child because he has lolicon, but he might decide to rape a child if he doesn't have lolicon. Likewise, pedophile B might rape a child because he has lolicon, and not rape a child if he doesn't have lolicon. The existence of lolicon isn't something you can call bad or good; it all depends on the pedophile in question.
Now, on the legality of banning lolicon: I think it would be unconstitutional. Obviously, the First Amendment protects free speech (my right to watch normal porn). However, it doesn't allow for people to use that speech to incite others to break the law. This is why Neo Nazis can proclaim their so-called superiority, but they can't tell people to harm Jews. That would be encouraging people to break the law. In terms of lolicon, it should only be illegal if it encourages pedophiles to rape children. Mind you, it has to openly encourage pedophile B to rape a child. If pedophile B watches a loli-hentai about men having sex with children and then says to himself, "I think I'm going to go molest a child now", does that mean the lolicon caused him to do it? Obviously it depends on the content of the video (God willing, I will never ever watch lolicon because I find it disgusting, so I'm not familiar with the average lolicon hentai) and the mental state of the pedophile (he might be unstable), but let me phrase it differently. If I watch a normal hentai where a man rapes a woman and then go out and rape a woman in real life, who's fault is it? If I went to court and said "The hentai made me do it", I can practically guarantee that (if I was mentally stable) I would be convicted. So in conclusion, I don't think there is a constitutional basis for banning lolicon (at least in the US) unless it openly invites the viewer to harm real children. |
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ultrapostman
Posts: 164 Location: New Jersey. Don't you just love traffic circles? |
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I guess it was kinda funny, but I didn't know how else to word it  . And you're right, for normal people it's usually very easy to resist sexual urges. Hell, it might even be easy for most pedophiles, but I guess we can never be sure. And I agree, this discussion is weird, but it is entertaining.
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Porcupine
 Posts: 1033 |
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Also, parents don't have "more rights" than people who aren't parents. Also who is to say that any pedophile in question is not a parent, too? |
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Porcupine
Posts: 1033 |
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More seriously, I'd now like to shift the discussion towards what is legal and what isn't, in AMERICA and JAPAN. For Australia, I think we have established that we don't have reliable information on exact nature of their laws, and the arrest in question has not been properly detailed in the news articles. It's quite possible that guy got arrested and fined for simply possessing normal hentai purchased in normal stores in various parts of the world. It's even possible the guy had no idea that watching such normal hentai was perhaps illegal in Australia. We just don't know because the news article is not informative enough. So let's discuss what is legal in ANIMATED video (not live-action) in America and/or Japan, just because I'm curious. You say that banning animated lolicon or animated hentai in general should be illegal. But is it really? Here are some issues: Do you really have to be 18 years or older to purchase an ordinary anime hentai DVD (or hentai game) in America (or Japan)? This isn't a question of whether or not it is enforced, just whether or not this is technically the law. If so, why the restriction 18 or older? Is this not "censorship" too? Is this not unconstitutional also? Next, is true loli-hentai and/or underage hentai illegal in America (or Japan)? What I mean by this is a hentai anime that not only features childish-looking characters, but also explicitly declares in the show that those characters are in high/middle/elementary school. I would also like to extend this question to NON-hentai anime (or even live-action) in which hentai acts take place but are simply not shown. For example Fate/Stay Night, the game in particular but possibly the anime also. Most characters in that show are explicitly stated to be high schoolers, but they engage in hentai acts, explicitly in the games, not explicitly but probably still engaging in them in the show. |
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nightmaregenie
 Posts: 167 Location: Palmy, NZ - student central |
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Animated or not...
...my point exactly. As to the legalising part...I was addressing something someone else said before. Besides, suggesting that we ban "real" child porn rather than the "drawings" is hypocrisy, since both forms of child porn are promoting children in sexual situations. As to child of Lilith...so we should leave all the poor pedophiles alone to support the underground pedo market? And let the market grow? And the demand also? Uh there's such a thing as private counselling, you know. We could at least try before we conclude that it doesn't work. It's not like if you want to go see a medical professional you have to shout your intentions from your rooftop. Someone else pointed out before that normal people don't generally get aroused by children anyway unless they have had real experiences before or have had a history of being abused themselves. If that's so wouldn't it be better to get in touch with them and actully find out "why" they are attracted to under-developed bodies in the first place and take the matter from there? Some of those loli-hetai game geeks aren't truly pedophiles but only find the virtual situations exciting but there are way more such games out there without protrayals of children in them. On second thought, there are a lot of moe-styled dating sims out there that's very hard to tell apart from a true loli-hetai but then again, if that's so than the Aussie man has but himself to blame when customs classifies the material as illegal. As I said before, there's nothing wrong with countries not wanting to take risks when it comes to reinforcing the law. |
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ultrapostman
Posts: 164 Location: New Jersey. Don't you just love traffic circles? |
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I already covered this. In order to make real child porn, you have to break the law, so therefore it must be illegal! Lolicon can be made without breaking the law, and there's no conclusive proof that it openly encourages people to break the law, so where is the legal standing for banning it? I challenge anyone to provide solid proof that lolicon should be banned. "It promotes children in a sexual situation"? How is that any different from normal hentai wherein a woman is raped? HOW? Can anyone answer that? |
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Porcupine
Posts: 1033 |
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Furthermore, this thread is NOT necessarily about child porn involving extremely young children. Some people are thinking about "pedophiles" who like 6-year old kids. Some people are thinking about "pedophiles" who like 15-year old girls. The latter scenario is clearly natural, yet still criminal if one were to physically act out. It's not proven that the Australian man even had any underage anime hentai at all, so people in this thread are free to interpret however they want. Regarding your last statement. There IS certainly something wrong with countries behaving the way you suggest. A kid steals a toy from a store when he is 10 years old. Let's take no risks. Shoot him dead on the spot. Oh no, look at Star Wars. It promotes laser-sword violence. We immediately have to go and shoot George Lucas dead. Oh no, someone is saying that the Earth revolves around the Sun! What a heretic. We need to burn him at the stake immediately. Oh no, my neighbor just bought a dog. It looks scary. I complain to the authorities. They immediately come over and shoot both the dog and his owner on the spot, since they can't take the risk that the dog might bite me someday. |
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ultrapostman
Posts: 164 Location: New Jersey. Don't you just love traffic circles? |
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YOU CAN'T FORCE PEDOPHILES TO GET COUNSELING! They have to choose to go on their own, but so many of them don't. Why don't so many pedophiles get counseling? Because they're ashamed. Society tells them, "You're a disgusting monster and we all hate you. Just curl up and die." Before you can say, "Get counseling" you first have to say, "We accept that you have a problem and that it's not neccessarily your fault. If you want to get help you have our full support, but it's alright if you don't want counseling. Just remember that it's there." |
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Porcupine
Posts: 1033 |
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"Counseling" isn't even a true science or medical profession. Most or all counselors and psychologists are just quacks. It's a field of quacks, just like the American Psychological Association's pathetic Manual that tempest quoted from earlier.
Being a pedophile isn't some sort of sickness, it's perfectly natural if you like underage (but physically or almost physically mature) girls. Even if you like toddlers, that's still not a sickness, just the way you are (weird). Saying that pedophilia is a sickness is like saying that being gay is a sickness. People don't force gays to go to counseling. Being gay is just as unnatural as wanting to molest a 5-year old toddler. I'm gonna say it again so that I attract the wrath of all the idiots here who keep mentioning "counseling". Counseling is FAKE, it is for losers!! It's a stupid profession and everyone who does it is a quack!! Oh yeah, ultrapostman, I just wanted to mention though that I don't think most pedophiles are ashamed. I wouldn't be ashamed if I liked 5-year old little girls. Although some certainly may be ashamed. Just like there are some gay guys who are ashamed and some gay guys who aren't. |
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mistress_reebi
Posts: 735 Location: Canada |
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They have more rights to protect their children than someones right to possess child porn. Just a quick question to everyone: is anyone here a parent? I'm not, but I know parents and they wouldn't want their children around someone who jerks off to child porn, animated or real.
It does, it's meant for the viewer/reader to become aroused, which sends the message that's it's okay to be aroused at children.
Australia has their own constitution. Besides, the way people say how Austrialia is ban happy makes it sound like North Korea. I have relatives in Australia and there hasn't been a crusade over people wanting to watch animated child porn. They may be conservative, but so is the US.
Are you sure this isn't a doujinshi?
We have been giving you proof? Have you ignored our post? Besides, it's the same as promoting rape against women.
You can't force people to do anything, but if it's for the greater good then they should get counseling. Would you prefer to leave them and let them rape children? We can say, "It's wrong to think of children haveing sex, so let's help you." If you tell them it's okay to have thoughts of children in sexual situations, it's encouraging them to do so. Some paedophiles think there isn't anything wrong with them. After all, most people who watch loli-hentai seem to think it's okay to jerk off to drawn children having sex. |
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Porcupine
Posts: 1033 |
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No, counseling is useless. It's not a medical science. It's simply a field of quacks who are stealing people's hard-earned money. No one needs to go to counseling unless they WANT to waste their money. Counseling is worthless.
Fate/Stay Night is a 100% commercial game and anime in Japan. Not a doujinshi or doujin-game. As to what proof you've given to ultrapostman, you haven't given any. You don't seem to understand what constitutes proof. Simply saying something is true is NOT proof. Otherwise, I could say: Pedophilia is GREAT! Pedophilia is LEGAL everywhere! And it's true because I say so. |
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Porcupine
Posts: 1033 |
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Porcupine
Posts: 1033 |
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Oh yeah, regarding Fate/Stay Night...that reminds me. Tsukihime, a non-hentai anime (based on a doujin game, but the anime is commercial) shows Arcueid having sex with Shiki and Shiki is in high school. He is a minor. Arcueid clearly committed jaibait rape with an underage minor and broke the law. But anyone can buy and watch Tsukihime in any country.
Is not watching Tsukihime promoting other viewers to also have sex with minors? The only different with Tsukihime and any regular hentai anime is that an actual hentai anime shows more clearly and more explicitly what they are doing. But they are clearly doing the same thing in Tsukihime. |
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ultrapostman
Posts: 164 Location: New Jersey. Don't you just love traffic circles? |
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Well Porcupine, I agree that pedophiles certainly shouldn't be ashamed of themselves just because society says they should. Society used to have (and unfortunately many people still do) the exact same attitude towards homosexuals, but the reason that many gays are happy is because society is much more accepting of them. From what you say, it seems that you don't form your views based on popular opinion (at least not always), but don't forget that many people just believe whatever Oprah tells them. Those are the same people that think being a pedophile is wrong even if the pedophile didn't choose to be one. |
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ultrapostman
Posts: 164 Location: New Jersey. Don't you just love traffic circles? |
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I'm sorry if I don't understand, mistress_reebi, but are you saying that I'm right? Hentai with rape scenes promotes real life rape? Does that mean that murder in a hentai anime (try Bible Black,  . People died in it, but that wasn't the creepy part. On second thought, don't watch it.) encourages people to murder in real life. What about video games? (I could go on, but I want to see if I understood your post first). Also, when I said proof of banning lolicon, I meant proof that it openly encourages child rape, which I already said is the only way it could be banned (in the US). So far, there is no conclusive proof in this thread, just opinions and "what ifs". [/quote]
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